Kydex vs. Concealex and other sheath questions

Z

Zzzen_Dog

Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
106
I've been reading through a number of threads in a search for information on custom sheathing. I'm hoping that those of you with more experience than I might be able to answer some questions.

1. What is the difference between Kydex and Concealex?

2. What about blade rattle? The kydex sheath that came with my Fallkniven A1 is by no means snug.

3. I've seen a number of threads indicating that custom sheaths can have a number of carry options, as well as ambidexterous options (important to me since I'm a southpaw), is this true and does it comprimise the integrity of the sheath in any way?

4. I've seen a number of different "grains" or patterns in posted photos. Is this an inherent property of the materials in question, or are these patterns applied by the artisan? Is this similar to what JSP does with laminating various fabrics on the exterior of their sheaths?

5. Finally, any recommendations as to who to contact regarding having sheaths made? I've seen a great many posts touting on/scene tactical, but as yet I've been unsuccessful in contacting Eric C.

Any assistance would be appreciated, and please feel free to add additional commentary on aspects of these materials in the sheath-making process that I may not have addressed.

Thanks,

Jerome French,
the Zzzen_Dog

:)
 
1. What is the difference between Kydex and Concealex?
Click to expand...

Good question, Jerome. I was wondering the same thing. As I recall, I heard something about Kydex becoming somewhat brittle in cold conditions, but nothing about Concealex doing this. For some reason, I think that this is why Concealex is become more prevalent lately, but I would welcome any knowledgable replies on the subject.

JK
 
Difference between Kydex and Consealex? Who make sit is one big difference. They work a bit differently (consealex will curl up when heated) and as far as I know, Consealex comes in a larger variety of colors.

Yes, Consealex/Kydex does have a texture. Carbon Fibre consealex looks very textured, but is no more textured than other colors (as far as I know.)

Production can't always guarantee a perfect fit. A fell made kydex sheath should allow you to grab the sheath and shake it back and forth upside down without the blade coming out. It may be too tight, but this can be adjusted so that it won't come out while doing this test, yet is relatvely easy to get out of your sheath when worn on your belt.

Ambidexterous? Not on a formed sheath liek that, unless your blade is perfectly symmetrical, as far as I know.

If you want ambidexterity, get a nylon sheath like from Eagle Industries.

Consider Nylon as well, or a hybrid. I can recommend these guys:

Special Operations Equipment

They make the sheaths for Strider Knives. A kydex insert is madee for your blade and the rest of the sheath is made of nylon. You could have them make a left and right insert, and use whichever insert you desire. SOE makes THE BEST nylon gear. You will pay $45 and up for one of their sheaths and wait about 6 weeks for it (you need to send your knife) but if you want an AWESOME sheath, you won't be disappointed. The sheaths come with a front pouch which is a great place to store a folder, multi-tool, etc.

Click here for a nice pic of the sheath (on the right).

Good luck on your hunt for a cool sheath.
 
Originally posted by Crayola
Ambidexterous? Not on a formed sheath liek that, unless your blade is perfectly symmetrical, as far as I know.
Click to expand...

Ye know not whereof ye speak:p
All of my On/Scene Tactical rigs are ambidextrous. My Elite Tactical Carry Systems rigs are ambidextrous. The Blade-Tech sheath that came with my Talon is ambidextrous. These are all "formed" kydex or concealex sheaths.

Z-dog,

The ambidextrous capability of the above sheaths does not compromise their integrity. It's as simple as removing the screws that attach the loop, clip, or TEK-LOK to the sheath, putting the clip on the other side of the sheath, and reinserting the screws.

A quality kydex/concealex (I see no difference in the two) sheath that is properly fitted will not have blade rattle, though exposure to extreme heat may loosen the fit.

Eric Noeldechen's site, which includes his email address, and other contact info is at:
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel/

Elite Tactical Carry Systems can be contacted through:
www.darrelralph.com just look on the site map.

I think I have a scan of one of Eric's sheaths, showing the clip removed, that shows how all those options are possible, and will post it if I still have it.

Found it, pics pretty big, though, so:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1483342&a=12403933&p=45491935&Sequence=0&res=high
Busse Basic 5 sheath.

And one with a drop loop mounted:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1483342&a=12403933&p=46946231&Sequence=0&res=high
This one's for a Busse Natural Outlaw.
 
I started making kydex sheaths about 5 years ago. In that time I've made them all kinds of ways looking for what works best. If you make it tight fitting it wears the finish at contact points. So I make them to have room ( rattel ). Now those knid where the kydex comes up over the guard to act as a retention, I gave that up. I carry "field test" my knives, and after a couple of months it wears on the knife and needs to be modifided. I gave that up, to go with heavy nylon straps and snaps to retain the knife.

The ratteling can't be stoped, unless you want to wear the finish. My neck knives are friction held but it doesn't wear to bad at first. If you try some kind of cloth lineing it will hold moisture on the blade.

Tec-loks, those guys ought to get some kind of award for "the advancement of sheath/holster of the century." Never has such a wonderful thing been made for "people that use."

Concealex better than kydex? The only diference I can see is it's harder to work, too easy too melt.
 
The main difference between kydex and Concealex is a matter of stiffness. Concealex has a little higher Rockwell and the inner surface is slightly slicker. It is also just a little more tricky to work with, but I like the results. It is possible to make a sheath that has some freeplay for the blade that will also not rattle; it just takes a little work, but keep in mind that kydex/Concealex sheaths are primarily for working blades, not your mirror polish wall hangers. The material itself does not mar up the blade, but rather extraneous debris that gets in the sheath. If you clean the blade before sheathing and make sure the sheath itself is clean, you should have no problems. Most of the good sheathmakers will generally set up their sheaths to work ambitextrously unless otherwise specified - it's not a problem. Hope this answers your questions.
 
Owen:

Thanks for your info! I was thinking ambidexterous as in once you put the sheath on your other side, the knife will be "backwards" on your belt. Or, if you leave your sheath on your right hip, can you flip the knife edge out and edge in on the same sheath. I don't know if anyone's kydex sheaths will allow that, but it sounds like Eric's sheaths allow for easy movement on right or left hip. Which way is the edge facing when you move the sheath to your other hip?
 
Hi Zzzen_Dog,
Welcome to the forums! There are a couple of good custom sheath makers around. I'm real partial to the stuff coming out of Mike's shop at RiverCity Sheaths. I've used his security sheath for years now to carry a rescue knife on my PFD while paddling. I've taken good thrashings in Class IV-V Whitewater with no knife loss. In addition to the various folder and fixed blade sheaths, he molds a dang fine concealment rig for carrying a big honkin' Bowie's. The link below includes some of his sheath work.
Stay Safe...
Clyde
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1450059&a=12222943
 
Thank you, everyone, for all of your reply's, including the links and photos.

Must say that I'm leaning towards a Concealex rig of some sort, that can be mounted to a number of positions for my Fallkniven A1 (which by the way is an awsome all around knife). I'd like to able to carry it on a pack strap (inverted), on my belt with a drop clip (so it can ride below the hip straps of my pack), and in an angled position for cross carry.

As a follow up question, what do you folks think about the laminating of materials to the exterior of the sheath for asthetic purposes?

I'd still like to hear more from other members on their kydex/concealex thoughts.

Again, Thank you.

Jerome French,
Zzzen_Dog
 
Yes, there are kydex/concealex sheaths where the blade can be flipped over, allowing ambi carry without adjusting the clip. My Newt Livesay RTAK came with such a sheath. It uses a cordura belt loop for drop leg carry only. The sheath is rectangular, not shaped like the blade. Only the lip is formed to the knife, and is symmetrical, so the knife can be flipped. The knife is held securely, no rattle, easy to withdraw.

In my experience, as a user only, kydex and concealex as materials are too similiar to recommend one over the other. But if concealex comes in more colors, etc., it may be the better choice.
 
Zzzen_Dog,

I have a friend here in Washington State who has an excellent product called "Agrip" that might be just what you are looking for, to cover a Kydex/Concealex sheath with.

You can see Agrip at:
www.brookstactical.com
 
Hi Jerome...

As far as the difference between the two plastics..

Other than some slight differences in exterior texturing and slight flexibility you won't notice much..

The difference comes in to play like Mike has stated in the working of the two plastics...

Mike and I both prefer to work with Concealex. The fact that it curls when heated (which causes some other sheathmakers to go screaming into the night), we embrace this fact, have come to understand it and use the curl to our advantage. We want it to curl, we need it to curl.. Come on Baby,,,Curl!! :) Damn been in the shop toooo long..:)

As far as cold goes.. That hasn't been proven/disproven to my satisfaction yet. The tests I have done are very favorable towards Concealex..

In my opinion and others may disagree thats fine,, a Far superior product. If there was better,, I'd be using it..

Jerome,, feel free to drop me a note and we can discuss your options, expectations and answer a few questions for you..

ttyle

Eric...
 
So, if you could have any kind of covering to "custom wrap" your own sheaths with, what kind of covering would you want? I have wrapped several of my own with super nice leather, as well as Agrip, and even have my Al Mar short sword sheath wrapped with my own "water proof cammo fleece". The coverings on all of them are easily removable without leaving ANY "adhesive residue".

I can get and make virtually any material "self adhesive" with the same special "Agrip Adhesive" and make it available to you at fair prices, but i have to know what you really want. This includes ostridge, snake, alligator, shark, denim, camo fleece, or whatever, not just "really nice black leather" or Agrip material. You could even send in the material of your choice to us (Brooks Tactical) and have the Agrip Adhesive applied to that. We could also wrap your sheath for you. The big question also is; "Do you really want to pay what it's worth?" Ostridge is obviously not cheap, so obviously the key is getting enough people that want a particular covering. Also, "cheap black leather" is not worth wrapping your sheath with no matter how good it looks or how inexpensive it is, because it just won't last. As they say, "you get what you pay for."

So, tell me, what do you really want? Maybe we can make it available on a regular basis at reasonable prices.

Thanks,

Brooks
*Tazz10m*
Brooks Tactical Systems
www.brookstactical.com
brooks@brookstactical.com
 
Originally posted by Crayola
Or, if you leave your sheath on your right hip, can you flip the knife edge out and edge in on the same sheath.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I misunderstood you on that one. In that case I agree, you can't do that with a formed sheath.

Which way is the edge facing when you move the sheath to your other hip?
Click to expand...
That's the beauty of those multi-carry sheaths-you can do alot of different positions. For instance, it could be edge up or down. Imagine that clip is on your belt. You can mount the sheath to it horizontally, vertically, or canted at 45 degrees from either side. So the edge can be up or down, depending on your preference.
It is symmetrical on both sides, and in the first scan I linked to, you can see the washers that separate the clip from the sheath, and allow it to work on either side. With Eric's G clip, you can also wear the sheath IWB vertical or canted, and set up for a regular draw, or reverse grip.
I love options:)
 
Hey Owen...

Yaa thats the beauti of working with and/or own a semi custom Concealex sheath...

There are sooo many different ways you can wear it,it's not funny..
Not to mention the adaptation of the new mini Tek Lok(BTW The mini Tek will fit my (new)sheaths with the small hole pattern and is far superior to the large Tek)

Jerome..

Was a pleasure talking with you today...

ttyle

Eric...
 
Originally posted by Crayola:
Or, if you leave your sheath on your right hip, can you flip the knife edge out and edge in on the same sheath.
Originally posted by OwenM:
Sorry, I misunderstood you on that one. In that case I agree, you can't do that with a formed sheath.
Click to expand...
Generally that's the case, depending on the shape of the blade. It would also be the case for wrap-around sheaths.

Making a laterally symmetrical sheath (blade can be put into unreconfigured/unmoved sheath with edge either fore or aft) for a strongly swept blade is harder since the sheath would become wider fore-&-aft (like a paddle holster). However, for a straight bladed knife like the Cold Steel SRK it can be done like this: http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/coldsteel_SRK.htm This is the old standard sheath that used to come with the SRK and it works real well.

In general I agree with you. In the case of the SRK sheath, I'd have been mistaken. :)
 
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