Lack of guidelines for Airport Security

J

jayharley

Joined
Oct 6, 2000
Messages
1,092
After months and months of traveling with my Spydercard blade, I was stopped at NY La Guardia airport security. I had to check my Spydercard through as I was not allowed to take it on board. I did not argue, as it is not smart to do so with airport security.

The point that really irritates me is that the decision was left up to a security "worker" who had no guidelines or written rules, to follow, on what makes a knife legal to carry on board. It was almost as though she made the rules according to her mood that day.

Why doesn't US airport security have strict guidelines for knife carry? They have very strict guidelines for the number of carry on bags allowed and the size of carry on baggage. They have guidelines for everything except for knives.

If they would not allow any size blade to be carried on board, I would not really complain. However, I do not like travel restrictions to be to be arbitrarily dictated by the whims and personal opinions of some airport worker.

Ah. I feel better now!!!!!

[This message has been edited by jayharley (edited 05-24-2001).]
 
I am less concerned with an airport security guard dictating his/her own policy about the knives we carry as I am about the laws our states adopt that allow so much "interpretation". See my post "Carrying in GA".
It's kind of like the "Assault Rifle" legislation.

Don't you hate people that use "quotes" all the time?
wink.gif


------------------
A Paladin in Hell
 
Here is another example:

Went to the Shot Show this year (in New Orleans, old stomping grounds for me) and had a Case Russlock in my pocket and a Laptop in my carry on. I was not stopped for anything, knife or laptop, until we were headed back home. Laptops usually have to be turned on and they are easy to spot because they leave a big black blot on the x-ray machines.

In New Orleans International the decided to toss my briefcase (carry on). Now this is after the shot show so I had several knives (couple of gerbers, Case Sowbelly, that kind of thing) in my briefcase. I figured I was screwed. The security worker looked through my bag and the only thing she mentioned about the knives was that her husband collected case knives. I gave her a business card and sent her a catalog when I got back. I couldn't believe it.

Who else out there has an interesting airport story? Or even better a list of dos and don'ts.

------------------
Jason Cadden
jc.gif

Webmaster
Smoky Mountain Knife Works, Inc.
jcadden@smkw.com
 
There's a very good and valid reason that this is left to the discretion of the guard at the gate. If there was a hard rule, then someone wishing to take some sort of violent action would know exactly how much knife he could bring.

A year or so ago, a US boarder guard got a "hunch" about a fellow wishing to enter the US from Canada. There was "something about this guy" that seemed odd. So, she opened his trunk (a search that would, under most other circumstances be totally illegal in the US but is accepted at boarder crossings) and found it full of powerful explosives and other bomb components.

It's amazing how many stories there are of guards in these sorts of "check point" situations who "get a hunch" about someone and end up finding a gun, a bomb, drugs, etc.

Giving the guards a degree of discretion allows that sort of success and also creates a huge uncertainty for criminals.

On the other hand, it can work for us. I've said it many times, but I'll say it again since I just made a trip to Dayton, Ohio and back with my AFCK just dropping it in the change tray at each check point with no problems. I use a technique that I call "innocence by association." If you look like a gentleman, act like a gentleman, and talk like a gentleman, then any knife that you might have in your pocket becomes, by association, just a gentleman's pocket knife.


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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
From what I understand:

There are FAA "guidelines".
Airport "guidelines".
&
Airline "guidelines".

Any one of them can screw you up, but remember these security guards are not picked because of their intelligence in discerning weapons' laws.

Can you say "minimum wage"?

------------------


"There are more things on this planet with fangs, claws, poisons and scales than
there are things that are warm, fuzzy, and full of love. It's a simple fact."
-James Keating-
 
Chuck, was the U.S. border guard a salaried, trained Border patrol agent or a rent a cop? I would definitely support a "hunch" by an experienced, trained professional who has years of interfacing with people crossing the border.

I got gigged at an airport with a CQC7. I had carried it many times before on flights. At the security entrance (one I had passed through many times) there is a sticker with the text of the federal law about knives and a bolted down ruler to check blade length. My knife obviously was well below both guides. Do you know who they ultimately asked if I could carry the knife on board? The f-ing pilot.

What are you going to do, though? You are at the airport and obviously heading somewhere.

Just last week I was heading to ATL. I had a CQC7 and my Gerber Multiplier(forgot about that one) in my computer case. The hired help at the xray machine in a very loud deceivingly distressed-sounding voice yells out "Knife!" I was about to open my mouth when I looked down and saw my computer case slide down the chute. She had seen a very tiny single bladed slip joint in the purse of a 65 year old woman. I hardly judge her reaction to be the hunch of a trained professional.
 
I still like the idea of one comedian (Carlin I think) about issuing handguns to all passengers as they board, then retrieving them after arrival.

biggrin.gif


Brandon
 
Knives on planes. You will not get the same answer twice. The FAA has guidelines, each airline has guidelines and each airport has guidelines. I know of people who carried on 4" folders without a 2nd glance and I also know of an executive for a very large company that was almost detained becuase he had a Spyderco Cricket in his pocket. He really used as a money clip. The main issue with the Cricket, it had those evil serrations. Serrations bring up another set of guidelines.
rolleyes.gif


If I take a knife on board, it's will most likely be a plain edge Delica. If you have problems getting on board and your running late (like I usually do), you can trash the knife or give it as a gift to one of the security people. You're not out that much and if you give it as a gift, you just MIGHT change that persons attitude about what they will let through.

------------------
If ignorance is bliss,
why aren't more people happy?
 
The FAA does have regulations. I normally carry a BM mini-AFCK with me when I travel by air since its blade fits the regulations. I drop the knife in the change box along with my keys and coins before going through the metal detector. This has nearly always worked. One time though, I was traveling through Philly airport during the National Democratic (I think) convention being held there, and security confiscated my knife. I protested, even asked for the supervisor, but security just claimed special circumstances. I did not have time to go back and send the knife through check baggage, so I lost it. You never know.

I am thinking of getting a small ceramic knife with no metal parts that I can carry in a neck sheath. I will have a blade with me if I need it, and I'll carry a better knife in my check baggage for after my arrival.
 
Steelhed: That ceramic knife, you commented on, sounds very interesting. Who makes such a knife? Thanks in advance.
 
Good question, JayHarley, I don't know yet, but this thread started me thinking. Maybe Boker or Kyocera makes a small, ceramic. Even a kitchen type blade in a custom sheath is preferable to no blade at all. At least it would be for me. You never know when you might need to cut your way out of an entangling seat belt after surviving a crash, or cut one of those hardtack sandwiches the airlines serve.
smile.gif
 
Mad Dog used to make a carbon fiber "Frequent Flier." I don't know whether it is still available. For LEO/ military, they currently make a ceramic with no metal insert. However, you should be extremely careful about taking these on a plane. Some of the new devices will detect them. Trying to deliberately get a stealth knife on a plane usually generates a much worse reaction than accidentally bringing a regular knife.

DPD.
 
About 6 months ago, I went to the airport to pick up my parents (who were coming home from Bolivia) and take them to their house. My wife, our 2 kids and I were headed toward the gate when I saw the metal detectors.

I thought "I wonder what blade I have in my pocket now...". I reached in there to find a BIG stiletto I was sharpening earlier in the day. I thought "oh sh*t! -that is definitely not the knife you want to try to take through a metal detector". I walked up to the gate and took all the stuff out of my pockets and put it in the tray. I put the knife in there last and asked "is that blade too long to get through here?" The guy looked up at me in utter terror. You would have thought it was a live grenade.

He called his boss over to look at it and he said "is that what I think it is?". I said "yes", because I thought he meant "is that a big honkin' stiletto". Right after I said yes, it dawned on me that everybody thinks that thing is a switchblade!

By now I was thinking I was going to be in some deep doo doo! After he examined the knife trying to make it open like an auto, I immediately asked him if I could go back and leave it in the car. He said "very good idea, very good idea". The whole time I had a lump in my throat the size of a golf ball! I thought I was about to be arrested.

Anyway, now I ALWAYS take my knife out of my pocket and leave it in the car when going into an airport. It's just not worth it.
 
DPD, you're probably right. But if they can detect a glass knife, then how come I get through the detector with my glass jaw.
wink.gif
No, really, I knew the x-ray machines will pick up a ceramic blade, but not the metal detectors you walk through. Maybe I need to rethink this. Yes, I'll just stick with a small, inexpensive folder that I can throw in the change box. If they take it, well, no big deal. Thanks.
 
Hey Guys,

Just a Note on the Guard asking the Pilot if You could carry on the Plane, an Airplane is Considered like a Ship once in the Air.... the piolet has complete and utter authority. (would you want the flight attendant picking the runways ??)

Hey at least you guys have well defined Knife Laws, up here the RCMP have the guideline of "if it looks Bad and threatning then it probably is and we must seize it"

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Proud To Be CANADIAN
 
Hey you all don't have to "throw away" your knives. Just bring along a postage paid, pre-addressed envelope, and ship it back home. 'Lot better than tossing it or giving it to someone who won't appreciate it.
smile.gif


DD
 
Take a look at Livesay's NRG neck knife. It's a fiber constructed knife with no magnetic signature. The kydex sheath has no metallic fittings. It should cost around $30.

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Spydies... Bet you can't buy just one.
ICQ# 117419996
 
My Interesting Airport story:

a couple of months ago when I was working Security in a hospital and also working as an EMT I had one of those "quick shift change days" which basically entailed changing belts and my shirt and haulin' butt from job #1 to job #2. So, I get into work (the EMT one) and find out Theres a patient coming in at the airport from the bush in about 45 min. we were supposed to meet at the gate, I grabbed a drink, and headed on down to the airport.
Well, arrived barely in time to go grab this patient from the gate and get on our way. I grabbed my stuff and started headin' on through the gate. I was about 3/4 of the way to the gate when I realized I still had my SIFU in my pocket!! I thought long and hard about turning around to drop the knife off in the rig (especially when I saw a couple of Airport Cops walking behind me) but then I figured "what the hell, it may be fun to see the security turn stark white when they see this one"
to make a long story short I (nervously) placed my SIFU in the tray along with my wallet, pen, flashlight, etc. and pretended that it's perfectly normal for folks to carry a folding knife with a 5 1/2 inch blade. this guard must have REALLY been asleep at the switch. HE LET ME THROUGH WITHOUT EVEN BLINKING AN EYE!! Told me to have a good night as he passed my gargantuan folder to me in the little plastic tray. I told him to do the same as I stuffed the knife back in my pocket and scurried off as quick as my legs could carry me. Once the whole affair was over I had the giggles for about another day afterward....since, I've become a bit more careful about what may be in my pocket when going there, best not to push my luck any further....
 
After getting told that I couldn't go past a security checkpoint with my Leatherman MICRA (!) and the pubescent guy at security also kindly informed me that the Micra was, in fact, illegal to carry anywhere in California, I picked up a Boker Gamma (ceramic and plastic folder). Nice small knife which has become my every day carry (very nonthreatening looking), and I've never had a problem just walking it right through the airport.

A friend of mine carries a Spydercard in his wallet and just tosses the wallet in the little basket along with his keys. Probably don't want to try this with huge or threatening looking wallets (e.g. Pulp Fiction's 'It's the one that says Bad MF').

cj
 
How's THIS for scary?

I had to pull jury duty a few months back. I went in with my cane, (aluminum, not CaneMasters, although heavy), a Comtech Stinger on my keychain, and my cell phone case.

The phone case comes on & off the belt via a plate that remains on the belt. I took the case off & put it into the change tray. At no time did anyone ask me to open it & prove there was a phone in there, or prove that the phone actually worked if it was there (it was, & it did).

The case could have as easily held 2 Sifus, or 5-6 other knives. In theory I suppose I could have gotten that "cell phone gun" that ABC's website mentioned some months back, assuming any made it into the country & I actually wanted one.

As it turns out, if I needed a knife, the morbidly obese bailiff had an ATS-34 Gerber EZ-Out clipped to his shirt pocket.
 
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