Lack of hardness listing on website

[Carl64]

I don't know about the rest of the Spyderco shoppers in here, but I like to know the RC rating for a knife before I buy it. I am sure I could get an answer here for a specific knife, but that isn't really the point. The "best" hardness is hardly in universal agreement, so I don't like to assume a manufacturer is doing it the way I would want it.

Aside from an AUS6 Delica, I have never been disappointed in the hardness or performance of a Spyderco. But no amount of good history will ever make me happy to assume on something that some other manufacturers are happy to put in their descriptions (even, oddly enough, in the case of certain manufacturers that make junk and admit it).

I know there are concerns over data that not everyone understands, it's not the whole story, etc. But it is something I like to regularly see and many people I know that are extremely experienced in making and using knives agree is important information.

 

[andersongw]

Just because a mfg lists the expected hardness don't make it so. I've done hardness testing on blades that don't average out to specs. Unless your ready to re-treat a blade I don't know what you could do about that

 

[Carl64]

Well, I believe Benchmade when they say a number. I also believe what Spyderco says. But when someone doesn't say anything at all you don't have the option to trust them or not. There are manufacturers I wouldn't trust about hardness, or much else either, but then again I am not talking about them and don't usually do business with them.

If you are familiar with a specific steel you can tell if it lives up to the hardness claim. You can tell the difference between ats34 at 57-59 and the same at 59-61 when using and sharpening them. In the long term you will notice because it makes a difference. But I am not going to buy every product and test it unless the description first labels it as something I want.

 

[HoB]

Just from memory:

Most ordinary Spydies are hardened to around Rc60 (ATS-55 and VG-10).

The S30V Spyderco runs a tad softer, 58-59 IIRC. Sal mentioned once that they found the S30V responded better with a slightly softer heat treat.

H-1 is an odd ball, which is workhardned also to about Rc 60, but the grinding of the edge further workhardens the steel so that the edge ends up at approx. Rc 65 for the PE and Rc 67 for the SE.

The steel in the Byrd line is hardened to about Rc 61.

But wait for Sal to chime in and give a definitive answer. Personally I couldn't care less how they run their steel (other than because of pure curiosity). I trust Spdyerco enough (especially as far as their steels are concerned), since they constantly test and know how to get the best out of their steels. But I know that Thombrogan (who will hopefully chime in aswell) had his S30V rehardened by someone.

 

[Carl64]

Just from memory:
H-1 is an odd ball, which is workhardned also to about Rc 60, but the grinding of the edge further workhardens the steel so that the edge ends up at approx. Rc 65 for the PE and Rc 67 for the SE.

I have the Salt-1, plain edge. It is definitely not normal steel.

It arrived plenty sharp. It loses it's perfect edge fairly fast (getting more of a wire edge than a VG10 Delica), but maintains a less than perfect edge for a longer time than you would expect. It is also not hard to sharpen back to a fine edge, adding more weirdness.

The only thing not surprising about H1, though based on coincidence rather than scientific reasoning, is that the more stainless a steel gets the weirder it acts.

I still much prefer VG10 because it seems to keep a finer edge better (but I haven't done enough testing to be sure), but H1 might do similarly well in long-term work-based testing (eg, a Cliff Stamp test).

We should probably start another H1 thread, as there are a million ways to go with it, but I found this page with a lot of details on nitrogen-based steels:
http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=2088

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Carl.

We listed Rc for quite a while, but recently I decided to leave it off. Several reasons.

The "spec" for the Rc is usually a given number. For Spyderco, it's the optimal hardness for any given steel. Which we determine by testing. Many are of the opinion that the harder the steel, the better. Our testing has indicated this isn't always the case.

Also, we began testing other copmpanies knives and found that they didn't match the spec listed in their paper. Even those that claimed to Rc every one. One was actually 4 points off posted spec.

So I decided to leave it off since it seemed to be treated more as a sales pitch for most companies that real info.

Our steels are pretty high grade; S30V, VG-10 for most models. 59/60 is where we like to keep them.

sal

 

[Carl64]

Sal:

I understand your logic and I believe what you say, but my preference is still to know what I am buying from Spyderco, even if others lie. It is no secret that not all manufacturers make a blade of whichever steel as well as they could, and I remember back when non-Spyderco companies started to offer a few ATS34 models like throwing bones to us we were cautious and eventually confirmed our suspicions when we tried blades that contained more BS than C, Cr, or Fe.

And yet, I still feel like there should be a better way to combat this than avoiding the subject. I know we can't have an independent test done comparing every Spyderco to every other knife out there, so I guess I don't have much suggestion otherwise.