Laddered W's

jdm61

jdm61

itinerant metal pounder
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
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I am looking to do a laddered W billet for the first time and was wondering if anyone could give me advice on how many "layers" to do after the flip with a billet that has 25-35 layers before flipping? I saw a WIP that Bruce Bump did with a feather pattern bowie and he went to 32 "layers" post flip IIRC. The lowest layer count that I have ever done for standard ladder is 180 and I have found that you have to go to 300+ before you start seeing the "chatoyance" in the pattern I typically go 400+.
 
Its probably my favorite pattern to make. I usually shoot for at least 25 "layers" after the flip. The layers are not counted the same as in traditional Damascus. Bruce's 32 layers was a very fine pattern if I remember correctly. Another fold or two may make the pattern too fine.
 
Thanks, John. So do you just chop into 5 pieces twice then stack and squish ? How many "regular" layers do you have when you flip? Do you have a picture of the end result? The reasons for my question is that normally, ladder is a "fine" pattern' but just fine enough andI really had no idea how you do that with W's and still retain their unique look.
On a semi-related note, is your Harbor Freight pipe threader the hand held one and how big of a bar will it twist?
JMJones said:
Its probably my favorite pattern to make. I usually shoot for at least 25 "layers" after the flip. The layers are not counted the same as in traditional Damascus. Bruce's 32 layers was a very fine pattern if I remember correctly. Another fold or two may make the pattern too fine.
Click to expand...
 
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Well, that piece definitely falls into the not bad looking category. ;) Do you find the the starting number of layers in the original billet or the number of stacks that you do after the flip is more important? I see pieces that look like yours and then I see ones where you get more of that "double ladder" look and wonder what is done differently to get each?
Cody Hofsommer said:

This is 40 layers flipped and 16 (4x4) layers of that.
Click to expand...
 
Honestly, I have only made a few and liked what a saw, so I stopped experimenting. Sometimes it's better to be lucky then good😬
 
I liked Cody's results, so I hit him up for his layer count a couple years ago- I'm still using 40x16, like that one pictured, for ladder w's.
I like to use a bit lower of an initial layer count for twisted w's, say a 20x16 maybe. 40x16 makes a very fine explosion, nice but not as dramatic.
Here's one of mine, at 40x16 ladder w's. Note the two heavy stripes from a thick CruV layer.
SQF_ObUNnS2iGpVEzOlBXpsJF1x-Hcg353v_Q2JmJVlR7mLfDIlBvOexFirRVpAveTJbzwuE__hBNg=w1366-h768-rw-no
 
Ugh. I forgot again, hotlinking from Google Pics can longer be seen by some browsers. I don't have those pics on Photobucket, maybe if I can summon the will to do it I'll fix the link later today.

There's twisted w's, or firestorm pattern, but I've not dabbled in that as a single bar. I really like the look of multibar with twisted w's enough that I've done some of those. Then it's often called explosion pattern, I learned it from a Kyle Royer bowie WIP that was in Customs and Handmade years back.
 
This is the result of a higher layer count before crushing:




And like twisting, I find that doing too much to Ws loses their beauty.
I looked everywhere and can't find my photos on twisted Ws, but I found it to be a waste of time.
Some might like it.
But I found it very plain and boring and afterward wished i hadn't done it.
Now, maybe with a lower layer count it would have looked nice.
But taking Ws too far in layer count, too tight of ladders, etc. doesn't fix what ain't broken.
 
Salem Straub said:
Ugh. I forgot again, hotlinking from Google Pics can longer be seen by some browsers. I don't have those pics on Photobucket, maybe if I can summon the will to do it I'll fix the link later today.

There's twisted w's, or firestorm pattern, but I've not dabbled in that as a single bar. I really like the look of multibar with twisted w's enough that I've done some of those. Then it's often called explosion pattern, I learned it from a Kyle Royer bowie WIP that was in Customs and Handmade years back.
Click to expand...

Here you go I got your back
Photo%20Oct%2015%2C%2011%2053%2024%20AM.png
 
Thanks bud!
Karl, I'm with you 100% on that- w's gotta be kind of bold to really show off the chaos that makes them cool!
 
Okay, that is the "double ladder" look that I was referring to.
Karl B. Andersen said:
This is the result of a higher layer count before crushing:




And like twisting, I find that doing too much to Ws loses their beauty.
I looked everywhere and can't find my photos on twisted Ws, but I found it to be a waste of time.
Some might like it.
But I found it very plain and boring and afterward wished i hadn't done it.
Now, maybe with a lower layer count it would have looked nice.
But taking Ws too far in layer count, too tight of ladders, etc. doesn't fix what ain't broken.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, I need to make some squaring dies for that and other purposes. I have an Imagination Xpress and its die setup is not as easy to work with as some other presses. i think I need to get a set of die plates that ae built as "die holders.
Karl B. Andersen said:
Another dimension to the character of laddered Ws is using squaring dies to fold over the layers before crushing.
Click to expand...
 
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