Laddered W's

jdm61

itinerant metal pounder
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
47,357
I am looking to do a laddered W billet for the first time and was wondering if anyone could give me advice on how many "layers" to do after the flip with a billet that has 25-35 layers before flipping? I saw a WIP that Bruce Bump did with a feather pattern bowie and he went to 32 "layers" post flip IIRC. The lowest layer count that I have ever done for standard ladder is 180 and I have found that you have to go to 300+ before you start seeing the "chatoyance" in the pattern I typically go 400+.
 
Its probably my favorite pattern to make. I usually shoot for at least 25 "layers" after the flip. The layers are not counted the same as in traditional Damascus. Bruce's 32 layers was a very fine pattern if I remember correctly. Another fold or two may make the pattern too fine.
 
Thanks, John. So do you just chop into 5 pieces twice then stack and squish ? How many "regular" layers do you have when you flip? Do you have a picture of the end result? The reasons for my question is that normally, ladder is a "fine" pattern' but just fine enough andI really had no idea how you do that with W's and still retain their unique look.
On a semi-related note, is your Harbor Freight pipe threader the hand held one and how big of a bar will it twist?
Its probably my favorite pattern to make. I usually shoot for at least 25 "layers" after the flip. The layers are not counted the same as in traditional Damascus. Bruce's 32 layers was a very fine pattern if I remember correctly. Another fold or two may make the pattern too fine.
 
Last edited:
Well, that piece definitely falls into the not bad looking category. ;) Do you find the the starting number of layers in the original billet or the number of stacks that you do after the flip is more important? I see pieces that look like yours and then I see ones where you get more of that "double ladder" look and wonder what is done differently to get each?

This is 40 layers flipped and 16 (4x4) layers of that.
 
Honestly, I have only made a few and liked what a saw, so I stopped experimenting. Sometimes it's better to be lucky then good😬
 
I liked Cody's results, so I hit him up for his layer count a couple years ago- I'm still using 40x16, like that one pictured, for ladder w's.
I like to use a bit lower of an initial layer count for twisted w's, say a 20x16 maybe. 40x16 makes a very fine explosion, nice but not as dramatic.
Here's one of mine, at 40x16 ladder w's. Note the two heavy stripes from a thick CruV layer.
SQF_ObUNnS2iGpVEzOlBXpsJF1x-Hcg353v_Q2JmJVlR7mLfDIlBvOexFirRVpAveTJbzwuE__hBNg=w1366-h768-rw-no
 
Ugh. I forgot again, hotlinking from Google Pics can longer be seen by some browsers. I don't have those pics on Photobucket, maybe if I can summon the will to do it I'll fix the link later today.

There's twisted w's, or firestorm pattern, but I've not dabbled in that as a single bar. I really like the look of multibar with twisted w's enough that I've done some of those. Then it's often called explosion pattern, I learned it from a Kyle Royer bowie WIP that was in Customs and Handmade years back.
 
This is the result of a higher layer count before crushing:




And like twisting, I find that doing too much to Ws loses their beauty.
I looked everywhere and can't find my photos on twisted Ws, but I found it to be a waste of time.
Some might like it.
But I found it very plain and boring and afterward wished i hadn't done it.
Now, maybe with a lower layer count it would have looked nice.
But taking Ws too far in layer count, too tight of ladders, etc. doesn't fix what ain't broken.
 
Ugh. I forgot again, hotlinking from Google Pics can longer be seen by some browsers. I don't have those pics on Photobucket, maybe if I can summon the will to do it I'll fix the link later today.

There's twisted w's, or firestorm pattern, but I've not dabbled in that as a single bar. I really like the look of multibar with twisted w's enough that I've done some of those. Then it's often called explosion pattern, I learned it from a Kyle Royer bowie WIP that was in Customs and Handmade years back.

Here you go I got your back
Photo%20Oct%2015%2C%2011%2053%2024%20AM.png
 
Thanks bud!
Karl, I'm with you 100% on that- w's gotta be kind of bold to really show off the chaos that makes them cool!
 
Okay, that is the "double ladder" look that I was referring to.
This is the result of a higher layer count before crushing:




And like twisting, I find that doing too much to Ws loses their beauty.
I looked everywhere and can't find my photos on twisted Ws, but I found it to be a waste of time.
Some might like it.
But I found it very plain and boring and afterward wished i hadn't done it.
Now, maybe with a lower layer count it would have looked nice.
But taking Ws too far in layer count, too tight of ladders, etc. doesn't fix what ain't broken.
 
Yeah, I need to make some squaring dies for that and other purposes. I have an Imagination Xpress and its die setup is not as easy to work with as some other presses. i think I need to get a set of die plates that ae built as "die holders.
Another dimension to the character of laddered Ws is using squaring dies to fold over the layers before crushing.
 
Back
Top