Lameco Escrima 12 Angles

N

nighthawk86

Joined
Sep 22, 1999
Messages
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Hello. Can someone give me the 12 angles of Lameco Escrima? I found an article that deals with training using these angles but I don't know what they are exactly. Thanks.

Nighthawk 86
 
I wil ltry, but you'd be better off finding some visual clues, preferably in a video form.
1. High forehand diagonal (if you are right handed, high right to low left)
2. Low backhand diagonal to knee
3. Low forehand diagonal to knee
4. High backhand diagonal
5. Straight stab
6. Horizontal slash left to right
7. Horizontal slash right to left
8+9 horizontal stab left to right immediatelly followed by a "coma cut"
10+11 horizontal stab right to left, followed by the "coma cut"
12. vertical cut, may be done both directions.

Hope this helps.
 
...I always thought the 12 Angles of Attack correspond to the 12 hands on the Clock. Each one representing a different 'line' aka; angle of attack rather than a specific technique per say.

But then I've never had any exposure to Lameco's system. Guess I learned something new today :)
 
James Green Dragon said:
...I always thought the 12 Angles of Attack correspond to the 12 hands on the Clock. Each one representing a different 'line' aka; angle of attack rather than a specific technique per say.

But then I've never had any exposure to Lameco's system. Guess I learned something new today :)
Click to expand...

I was about to say, I thought that was Inosanto Kali
 
Hetman: Thanks for the info. Fortunately I do a lot of reading so I understand
the angles as you wrote them.

James Green Dragon: Actually, I figured out a while back that using the clock
is a good way of explaining the 12 angles. i.e. angle 1 in most systems
could be described as: from 2 to 8 o'clock, angle 2 would be 10 to 4 o'clock,
and so on. But I'm sure you realize that in most FMA's you get 12 angles by
repeating 3 of the angles since there are 9 basic angles (8 and the straight
thrust).
 
It's all good NH.

In Hapkido we use 8 angles as opposed to 12. ...Same difference really :thumbup:

And we practice 3 thrusts (palm down, palm vertical & palm up) - all thrusts being a variation on one of these, whether from forward grip or reverse grip.

Matter of fact, we drilled some knife work last night...
 
Hetman said:
I wil ltry, but you'd be better off finding some visual clues, preferably in a video form.
1. High forehand diagonal (if you are right handed, high right to low left)
2. Low backhand diagonal to knee
3. Low forehand diagonal to knee
4. High backhand diagonal
5. Straight stab
6. Horizontal slash left to right
7. Horizontal slash right to left
8+9 horizontal stab left to right immediatelly followed by a "coma cut"
10+11 horizontal stab right to left, followed by the "coma cut"
12. vertical cut, may be done both directions.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

minor correction...#5 is an straight/upward/ thrust...this is because a straight thrust is usually countered by moving or folding the midsection back away from the thrust. the upward motion is the answer to this...it continues to the face or to the chest. then continues to the slashes of #6-7 just in case the defender side-steps to left or right flank.

i hope that helps and makes sense.
 
saint o' killers: Thanks for the correction. That does make sense.

James Green Dragon: I was wondering how does Hapkido knife work compare to FMA knife work? Are there any videos or books on Hapkido knife work?
(Aside from Robert K. Spear books, not that I have a problem with his "Military
Knife Fighting" book, I used to own it, but I was wondering if there were other
people who put out any). Thanks.
 
NH: The knife work in our system of Hapkido is very similar to the FMA I have done & seen. Specifically there is an emphasis on the close & mid-range techniques most suited to a blade of 7" or smaller. My instructor is Mst. Mike Tomlinson & the lineage of our knife techniques comes from the 5th Spcl Forces Grp. via Mst. Harold Whalen of Boston.

It is my understanding that Mst. Whalen has not taught anyone knife techniques in many years though. I don't know of any commercial videos out showing the techniques.
 
Nighthawk86,
There is a book and a tape of Hapkido knife work:

Hapkido Weapons volume 1 -The Knife- by Kwang Sik Myung
also a video with the same title by the same author.

World Hapkido Federation
PO box 15523
Los Angeles, CA 90015

Regards,

RJJ
 
Master Myung and his organization are affiliated with the Ki Do society. As a result, their techniques generally have much larger circles & practice is far more cooperative than some other forms of Hapkido (not saying its bad, just different than what we do). Far more like Aikido than our stuff...

I had the pleasure of attending one of Mst. Myung's seminars here in FL a number of years ago. The thing that impressed me most was his work with the sword (!) - it was literally like a living thing in his hand - VERY impressive IMO.

But the basic techniques & knife work do not resemble our style of Hapkido :)
 
RJJ: Thank you for that information. I'll check that out.

James Green Dragon: Thanks for your insight on Master Myung.
 
James, I was just curious, is there two systems of Hapkido? Is one the original Hapkido and has the other one morphed into a partially Philipino system by incorporating FMA angles of attack and such? If so can you still call it Hapkido?

Best regards,

Ray Smith
 
Fair question Ray. And one that is a huge 'can of worms' within the Hapkido community. I'll try to give a concise answer below.

Hapkido has it's roots in Japanese Aiki-Juijitsu. But the first Korean student of what was to be later called Hapkido was already a Korean Judo (Yudo) black belt. And the man who coined the term Hapkido, DJN Ji Han Jae, would go on to alter the style to a large degree - incorporating kicking, weapons & meditation techniques that gave it a flavor all its own...

However, at this time, it is important to understand that Hapkido, like Juijitsu, has become a somewhat generic term. There are many different styles of Hapkido. Not just two or even 3. They may bear little resemblence to one another in practice - or be as alike as two peas in a pod. Either way, they will incorporate many of the same techniques. Just like JJJ.

For example, some styles of HKD include all 40 of the original Yudo throws (yes I know that there are 67 recognized throws today), some only a few of those throws. Some include hundreds of different kicks. Others only kick below the waistline. Most don't include any solo 'forms/kata' training. And at least a few do... Confused yet? - Me too :D

But far more important than techniques are principals. In order to be Hapkido the Art must encompass the 3 principals of: 1) Non-resistence, 2) circular motion and 3) the Water principal - which are the concepts of flowing, adapting and enveloping to overcome an attack.

Lineage is also important. But beyond that, Hapkido is a Living Art. It is expected to evolve. As DJN Ji Han Jae says, "make you're own Hapkido"...*

Regarding the angles of attack, we use 8 as opposed to 12. These same 8 angles of attack are common to JJJ, Aikido, Kenpo and of course, HKD. Probably many other styles too. The angles do not come from FMA, though I suspect some of the actual knife techniques do. Via the aforementioned Mst. Whalen's experience with military knife fighting.

Does than mean as a soon-to-be 2nd Dan I feel comfortable changing Hapkido by incorporating techniques from other systems? No, not exactly. But then again adopting a more advanced method for using a tool does not change the fact that what I do is HKD either. If it is going to be a Living Martial Art it cannot be something that restricts me. Instead it must encourage freedom of expression...

*Regarding the above quote from DJN Ji, that comes directly from the source. One of the 3 occaisons I personally had the pleasure of training under DJN he wore the gold belt given to him by Bruce Lee during the filming of Game of Death. Long story short, I think Mr. Lee's ideas about the nature of a living Art were something DJN had some experience with already & incorporated into his own teachings.

...So that is my take on it Ray. And that, at ~8 paragraphs is the short answer LOL :D
 
James,
Thank you for the explaination. The only thing I know about Hapkido is when it had a surge in popularity back in the 70's due to the Billy Jack movies. I'm sure Hapkido as gone through some changes since then. I was just curious about the differences in style and you clarified that.
Thanks,
Ray Smith
 
LOL - Billy Jack was the man at the time wasn't he?!?! :D

That was Mst. Bong Soo Han - an awesome martial artist & excellent teacher. I never had the pleasure of training under him but the author of Zen in the Martial Arts, Joe Hyams, writes of some of his experiences learning from him in his book (excellent book BTW - one of the top 10 on the subject IMO)... By all accounts an excellent teacher.

Although Mst. Han was a student of both DJN Ji and DJN Choi his style of Hapkido emphasizes allot more kicking than what we do. Again, not dissing it - not at all - just another example of how diverse Hapkido really is.
 
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