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Laminated steel?

N

nick21

Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,035
I'm attracted to the Caly 3 but how is the 420J2/ZDP-189? I'm not a knife steel guru, but I know enough to know that 420J2 is really soft and ZDP-189 is really hard. But I don't know how laminated steel is or works.

Sorry if I'm not the first to inquire about this :(
 
My understanding is that hard steels are more prone to breaking, and so the softer steel laminate is to increase the overall toughness of the blade. Also it could be a cost saving measure, by laminating the more expensive steel with the cheaper steel, thus using less of the expensive steel.
 
zdp189 is hard. Hard steel tends to be brittle, hence the 420j2. It is a great edc combo blade.
 
I gave that exact knife to all three of my grown nephews. Wonderful folder. I've had quite a few, and the combo idea is not at all new.
GatorFlash1 is right on.
 
Think of it as a taco, yes...a taco. The shell is the softer steel and the "meat" is the harder steel. That is just the way that manufacturer makes them, they have their own style. If you want an all ZDP blade they are available, in the Endura, Delica, Dragonfly, etc.
 
It takes less time to grind the blade when you're mostly grinding off the cladding, so it definitely is cheaper, but does also make the knife a little tougher overall (The actual edge is pure ZDP-189 though so it's no tougher at the edge). The other advantage is that ZDP can be prone to very minor rust pitting if neglected because it has such a crazy high carbon content (What makes it so hard), and the cladding steel is very stain resistant so you're less likely to see corrosion, especially in the hidden areas like the tang right around the pivot.
 
the steel sandwich/taco works quite well. The soft outside steel is known to scratch up close to the handle, but its no big deal. To me the real question is whether to buy a Caly 3 or Delica? The answer to that, I think, boils down to your handle material, choil/no choil and clip preferences. I own both and LOVE the Caly 3, but the Delica gets more pocket time.
 
I have the Caly 3.5 Carbon Fiber and ZDP-189 laminate. I use it daily for all sorts of things. The ZDP-189 is not for unreasonable rough use (twisting, prying, etc) that you might get away with with other steels. It's made for cutting which is does extremely well. It also holds a wicked edge since it has a Rockwell Hardness of 63 (I haven't verified myself, but others have stated). It looks like a piece of art closed, but it looks menacing when you open it. The 420J2 is softer and will show scratches fairly easily. Not thrilled with the back lock since you can get some minor spring on hard downward pressure. I mostly use it choked up and for delicate work. Definitely feels like an extension of your hand.

-gh
 
Yeah, this is what it has been done (although in more complex structure than just 2 different steel) in Japanese Samurai sword. :D

~MFL
 
Laminated steel, composite steel and differential hardening are 2 ways to try and optimize the different the steel in different parts of the blade to the different requirements of the parts of the blade. The edge wants to be hard for better edge holding. The spine and thicker part of the blade wants to be a little softer in order to be more ductile so it will resist breaking better. All 3 of these methods will do that. When a blade is bent sideways the extreme edges of the thick part of the blade see the most stress. You want this material to be able to resist the stress without easily fracturing.

Older blades and Japanese swords made by folding and hammer forging are done that way for a completely different reason. Our blade steels need carbon for hardness and we have been able to incorporate carbon in steel for a long time. These days we can make even better steels with the powdered metal processes and even spray forming, which illustrates how important it is to infuse the materials throughout the steel. In older times they did not have processes for infusing carbon throughout the steel, all they could do was to get the carbon a shallow depth into the surface. Folding and hammer forging the steel time after time was their way of getting the carbon into the middle part of the steel. I have not read anything about toughness of good damascus compared with conventional steel but I believe the master bladesmiths can make it work well. However I think the best you can do with damascus is to approach good modern steels. But the point is that folded steel is done to address a different need than why laminated steel is made.

I own some laminated blades, most are contemporary versions of Morseth designs. I bought them because they are unique and I like the styles. I also have some damascus blades that I bought because of the history behind them. All of my user knives are conventional steel.
 
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