laminating steel

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misterjuiceman

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how exactly does the process of laminating steel (like with ZDP-189 and ATS-34) work? would it be possible to take a carbon steel and laminate only part of it with something like 440C? what I'm thinking is laminate the part of the blade that makes contact with the pivot washer. that way rust isn't an issue for the internals.
 
I don't know if that is possible, but it is a great idea.
It might be cost prohibitive in the eyes of manufacturers.
The internal pivot point is the Achillies' heel of carbon steel folders, coated or not.

I would probably buy an M4 folder if someone laminated the blade like you described.

Hard chrome in that area would work also.
 
I was also thinking that maybe press fitting pieces of phosphor bronze to the end of the blade could also work.
 
elkins45 said:
Oiling the joint also works remarkably well.
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Absolutely agree. Don't know why people are so concerned about rust - just keep it clean and oiled.

I bought a ~40 yo Opinel #9 Carbon for $5 - obviously a well used and loved EDC knife that belonged to the seller's uncle. Pivot hole/pin were so worn that while the blade still locked it was wobbly. I drilled out the pivot hole and replaced with a slightly larger pin and she's as tight as ever. Took about 20 minutes and should hold for another 40 years
 
sure its possible

many Japanese kitchen knives are carbon steel with a stainless jacket

How to do this yourself?........ I have no idea
 
dd61999 said:
sure its possible

many Japanese kitchen knives are carbon steel with a stainless jacket

How to do this yourself?........ I have no idea
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Corrosion resistance may be a by product but is not usually the primary purpose of laminating. Most of the laminated high carbon steel knives I know are laminated with a milder carbon steel, not stainless. The laminating is to clad a hard and more expensive core with a tougher and cheaper jacket to combine the advantages of a hard edge with tough supporting layers.

The layers of steel are welded together by rolling under heat and pressure. Steels are usually chosen for their combatability - carbon with carbon, stainless with stainless. Laminating very dissimilar steels is fraught with problems such as "carbon bleeding", or the weld not taking at all. Yes, it is possible to weld stainless to carbon - you will need a forge, the right techniques and a special flux. Then when all is finished you will have to heat treat the blade.

There is another process called "chromiding" that will create a very hard and protective chrome-steel surface alloy, but this variation of electrolyis takes place at very high temperatures in molten salt - not something most people would be equiped to handle.

I'm not sure what the advantage of all this is if you intend to laminate only around the pivot. Oil is simple, cheap and it works.
 
Ariel Salaverria, Murray Carter, Burt Foster and others do stainless/carbon laminates. Jerid Johnson may still do it, but I don't know. The laminated BK11 is also stainless over carbon steel.

The steels are forge welded together. The surfaces must be clean, and the edges are welded shut or the pieces of the billet are canned to keep oxygen from affecting the weld.
 
I'm not really interested in this for personal use; I'm just curious. I don't really have the equipment or the capability of making a knife or laminating anything, for that matter. I suppose oil would work, but it seems like you'd have to take it apart pretty often to make sure you don't get any rust where the washers mate with the blade.

it seems like a place like CRK could easily press-fit a piece of phosphor-bronze into the end of the blade. that seems like it'd be a lot simpler than having to oil the pivot so much, and in the end, it's one less thing to worry about. i'm not sure if this would reduce friction at all, since I think that oiled metal has a coefficient of friction several orders of magnitude less than phosphor-bronze, but I'm sure it couldn't hurt.

bearcut said:
Sal, are you getting all this down?
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haha, just remember you saw it here first. ;) checks can be made payable to misterjuiceman (that's my other name, I'm going to change it on here)
 
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