Large Stockmans; More Prone to Edge Hitting Spring Than Other Styles ?

Wowbagger

Wowbagger

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I have a bunch of questions but they are just one question . . . or obsession if you have been following the sad and disturbing though ultimately triumphant saga of the Large Stockman in smooth red bone.

I have many slip joints and as you can see a few are medium Stockams from various makers. Of all of my knives the only one that ever hit the spring was this one large stockman in smooth red bone. NONE of my medium stockman's have this problem in spite my tendency to flail the knife closed without a care.

Being the newb I am and having just recently discovered how pocket friendly a large stockman can be (my first), compared to a trapper which isn't pocket friendly (though I carry them ALOT in a pouch).

I am considering buying more large stockman's.
My question is (are)(is) does the large stockman in general have more tendency to edge rap against the spring than other or smaller versions of the slip joint.

How is the Cold Steel Ranch Boss for blade wrap ? (another knife I have trouble ignoring)

GEC Large Stockmans . . . any more problematic than any other large stockman ?
Thanks
IMG_4996.JPG
 
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No, the stockman pattern, in general, is not prone to the edge rapping the spring. No pattern is prone to it. It has more to do with manufacturing choices. Some companies "underblade" their knives so that's never a problem. Some companies are a bit more generous with their steel and then tiny differences in hand assembly and tuning can cause rapping which is easily fixed by sharpening.

Can't comment on the Cold Steel Ranch Boss. I thought it was made by Canal Street? I've heard others claim Queen? Don't know who made it and never seen one except in photos.

Haven't had issues with rapping on any stockman from GEC or Case... and I think I've tried every stockman pattern from both companies. Case tends to underblade their knives a little.

The Mercator K55 has a lot of blade rap... the tip pretty much rests on the spacer. In my experience, GEC knives with spear blades are more likely to have issues with exposed tips or blade rap. Both are usually easily fixed by sharpening or filing the kick.
 
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supratentorial said:
No, the stockman pattern, in general, is not prone to the edge rapping the spring. No pattern is prone to it. It has more to do with manufacturing choices. Some companies "underblade" their knives so that's never a problem. Some companies are a bit more generous with their steel and then tiny differences in hand assembly and tuning can cause rapping which is easily fixed by sharpening.

Can't comment on the Cold Steel Ranch Boss. I thought it was made by Canal Street? I've heard others claim Queen? Don't know.

Haven't had issues with rapping on any stockman from GEC or Case.
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Exellent !
Thank You

Yes, now that you mention it, it seems that the blades in the GEC catalogs have looked a bit wider in the trappers, stockman's and similar narrow bladed knives.

"a bit more generous with their steel" then requiring more attention and skill in hand assembly and tuning.

Interesting trade off.
 
I buy primarily stockmans in the 3-3/4 - 4-1/4” range (think Case 47, Queen #9). The only one (I have a comparatively small collection maybe 20 or so) that I’ve had a blade rap issue with was my GEC Texas Cattle knife..... that is not a “large” example but a monstrous example. So in my small experience I’d not say it is an inherent issue with the large stockman pattern.
 
FWIW, the Spey blade on my Ranch Boss hit the backspring if you let it snap closed. A piece of cork under the kick solved that :).

~Chip
 
In addition to "rap", another thing to consider with any multi-blade that has blades on both ends is the potential for "rub". Rub is when two blades contact each other or a blade contacts the liner instead of moving freely. This can cause scratches on the blades. If the blades are touching when closed, it's an issue with tuning during manufacturing. Not a big deal though unless it's really bad. It can be fairly common. For example, the spey blade on every Rough Rider sowbelly that I've ever seen rubs the liner. If the blades aren't touching when closed, and you're getting scratches then it's usually because you are pushing on the blades instead of pulling straight up. This often gets unfairly blamed on the manufacturer when it's the user who is causing it. Just another one of the tiny details that some collectors obsess over! ;)

One way some companies minimize rub is to use a cut scale or spacer. Another way is to off set the blades instead of crinking them.
 
I only have one medium size stockman, a Buck 373. (don't carry it; feels too small)
The rest of my stockman are 4 inches closed or longer. Rough Rider (4 1/4" closed) and Böker (4" closed) are double spring, the Buck 301 and 371 (mine all measure 4 inches closed, not the stated 3 7/8 inches) are triple spring.
I've had no instances of any blade hitting the back spring on any of mine.
If it matters, of the 5 or 6 double spring stockman I have, 1 might have a little bit of blade rub, but not enough for me to worry about. It does not dull the blade, at any rate.
None of the 5 or 6 Buck stockman I have has any blade rub.
 
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jwb01 said:
GEC Texas Cattle knife
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Cool knife; the blades don't stick up out of the handle as far when closed and the awl is great to have. Good size useful handle in hand from the photo I looked up.
 
supratentorial said:
Rub is when two blades contact each other or a blade contacts the liner instead of moving freely. This can cause scratches on the blades. If the blades are touching when closed, it's an issue with tuning during manufacturing. Not a big deal though unless it's really bad. It can be fairly common.
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Yes I have just had to resign my self to a fair amount of this. I don't like it but it happens to many multi blade folders.

A few scuffs don't hurt the performance like a three eighths (10mm) long flat spot on the blade like I was fighting for a while there.
 
Wowbagger said:
Wow ! That's really saying something. :thumbsup:

any chance of photos of your Bucks ?
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The context is important. IIRC those knives have 3 springs. It's a bit like saying that your 3 kids didn't fight during the entire trip without mentioning that you seated them in different rows on the airplane. ;)

But even on the 3 spring Bucks, rub is not uncommon. There are no center cut liners (center cut liners would make a 3 spring knife super fat) so the blades are right up next to eachother and often the blade flats will rub.

QIyM6dL.jpg


GEC 66, Moore Maker sowbelly (Queen), Case sowbelly, Buck 301, GEC 81, GEC cattle, GEC 82, Moore Maker Jumbo stockman (Queen)
 
supratentorial said:
The context is important. IIRC those knives have 3 springs. It's a bit like saying that your 3 kids didn't fight during the entire trip without mentioning that you seated them in different rows on the airplane.
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I did specifically state that the Buck 301 and 371 stockmans I have are three spring, while the Rough Riders and Böker are two spring.
 
I wish I could. I'm not sure if it is me, or my "smart" phone, but one of us ... or maybe it's both of us? ... is too stupid to post a picture using my "smart" phone. :(

EDIT:
I just remembered. I also have a 5 or 6 blade Rough Rider Stockman. :)
No problems with it, either. If memory serves, I gave it a mini review over in the Rough Rider thread, maybe two years ago. I do remember saying that "all the blades played together nicely, with no blade rub".
Unfortunately, I do not remember if it has 4 or 5 backsprings. The knife is in Florida, while I am in Idaho, so I can't look to see.
 
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Good news and info guys !
And thank you for all those photos. All the different brands sure have their own presence.
I haven't seen a Old Timer for ever (yes I am very sheltered) it is kind of all business isn't it ?
And the spay blade on that GEC 81; from the looks of the spine of the blade it is particularly thin compared to the other two blades . . . I like that.
 
Wowbagger said:
Wow !
From the thickness of the frame and liners not to mention the blades this looks like the Gayle Bradley One of stockmans.
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The Buck 301 is not all that thick, even with the triple spring. My Böker stockman (double spring, 'Böker Plus' series) is about the same. There might be 1/32" difference between the two.
 
Large stockman is my favorite and most-carried pattern. I have a bunch of them, from Case, Buck, Queen, Eye Brand (Carl Schlieper), etc. Precisely NONE of them have shown issues of blade edges contacting the backspring. I wouldn't worry about it at all, with the pattern specifically.

The current-generation Buck 301s, with their 3-spring build, aren't immune to blade rub, as the blades are positioned extremely close to each other with no liners separating them. I've handled two of them in my life, both at the same dealer. One I bought; the other I took a pass on, because the sheepsfoot blade didn't close fully on it's own, as it was rubbing against the spey. Didn't help that the springs on these particular knives aren't particularly strong, with the sheepsfoot blade (on the center spring) having the weakest closing pull on the two knives I handled. Even the one I did buy had some light rub between the same two blades, in the same spot on the grind. Not a big deal, and the 'as ground' finish on these knives does a sneaky-good job hiding the rub marks, unless viewed from the right angle in good light. With a tumbled/polished blade, like a Case for example, the same light rub marks stand out pretty obviously. The current Case '47 pattern stockman is a definitive example for comparison, with a 3-spring build and polished (tumbled) blades with extremely close spacing between them; no liners either. It rubs too; but it's just cosmetic, most of the time.

With the '47 Case, it's blades are also ground much thinner than on the Buck, so they're more vulnerable to the lateral flexing that contributes to blade rub on opening/closing.
 
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