Latest victim of Canada's CBSA overreach

[shikodo]

Hey all,

This is my first post. So I own an outdoor store in Ontario and ordered a decent sized wholesale order from Blue Ridge Knives in the first week of October. On October 18th, I see the tracking indicated that the shipment got sent for further inspection.

I received a notice of detention letter in the mail and I had a number to call so, of course, called it. I got nowhere with the person who answered the phone, as expected, so I simply had to wait.

I wake up one-morning last week after nearly a month in limbo, and hallelujah, the package was released by customs. I receive the package only to find 15 knives from the package missing. No note in there, nothing, just the yellow tape on the outside of the box. I received a notice a few days later that 15 of the knives were deemed to be prohibited weapons. 1 was classified as an automatic knife, and 14 were classified as centrifugal.

I'm assuming they classified the Jernigan Torreya Linerlock as the "automatic knife"

Here's the kicker. Among the 15 "centrifugal" knives:

1 was a Rat Model 1
2 were a Rat Model 2
4 were Kabar Doziers
3 were Outdoor Edge Onyx Lite Lockbacks
2 were Outdoor Edge Grip Lite Black

You have to be kidding right! NO flipper, NO spring, NO gravity, nothing. This is an obscenity.

The other 2 were various flippers like the Real Steel Thor.

Words can't even describe how amazed I am at this very obvious overreach by the CBSA. I'm super livid and had to vent. I'll be writing to my local MP Peter Van Loan about this blatant act of stupidity.

Thanks for listening to my rant. Canada as we know it is slowly dying...

 

[stabman]

Unfortunately, if the person trying to flick it can flick it, it's a flick knife.
It's been that way for years; not a new thing.

The lucky part is that they often don't bother opening the boxes and trying to flick the knives.
The unlucky part is that your future shipments will most likely see more flicking attempts.

See if you can get your supplier to tighten the pivots. On these knives, if they cannot flick, there will be no problem.

 

[shikodo]

Unfortunately, if the person trying to flick it can flick it, it's a flick knife.
It's been that way for years; not a new thing.

The lucky part is that they often don't bother opening the boxes and trying to flick the knives.
The unlucky part is that your future shipments will most likely see more flicking attempts.

See if you can get your supplier to tighten the pivots. On these knives, if they cannot flick, there will be no problem.

Thanks stabman,

So what are the tests, would you happen to know? I've stocked Rats, Doziers, and Outdoor Edge for about a year (from a Canadian supplier) and not once have I ever been able to open them in some crazy fast way.

 

[stabman]

Thanks stabman,

So what are the tests, would you happen to know? I've stocked Rats, Doziers, and Outdoor Edge for about a year (from a Canadian supplier) and not once have I ever been able to open them in some crazy fast way.

Pretty much, they just try flicking it, holding it by the handle and seeing if they can flick the knife out.

I talked to a Customs agent who, when he did it, would just hold the knife, then try to shake it up and down to see if the blade would open up. Almost no normal knife would open the way he was doing it.

Others grab hold of the handle in a death grip, and then sideways "Fling!!!" it as hard as humanly possible. Quite a few knives will open that way, if the pivot isn't cranked down. Hopefully you don't get that guy inspecting the shipment.

People have reported having some knives held in a shipment, while others were allowed to be delivered...and they were the exact same model of knife. It really comes down to if it flicks or not.

The only ones I wouldn't try importing right now even If the pivot were cranked down are assisted openers with the flipper tab. Customs has deemed them to be switchblades (even though they are not), and their Tribunal upheld this (even though they are perfectly legal in Canada). For all other folding, locking knives, if your supplier is willing to tighten the pivots, you're good to go.

For now at least...they do love changing rules on us at the Border from time to time.

 

[newdebate]

Why put all the eggs in one basket?

 

[shikodo]

Why put all the eggs in one basket?

Are you referring to ordering all the knives from one supplier?

 

[Switchblade_renegade]

I'm sorry to hear that man! As a fellow Canadian I too have felt the wrath that is the customs!!!! Ridiculous what they try and pull nowadays

 

[Johninmississauga]

shikodo This sucks!
I was just on ZT's site looking around and and seen this note on most of there knifes

"This product is only available in the United States. Canadian law currently prohibits the import, sale, or carrying of flipper/assisted opening knives."

This must have just happened if not wow. My local knife store here in the GTA if full of them! going to go by on monday to see if this is new or what!

 

[gadgetgeek]

Its within the last year, as far as flippers go.

 

[Lapedog]

Hey all,

This is my first post. So I own an outdoor store in Ontario and ordered a decent sized wholesale order from Blue Ridge Knives in the first week of October. On October 18th, I see the tracking indicated that the shipment got sent for further inspection.

I received a notice of detention letter in the mail and I had a number to call so, of course, called it. I got nowhere with the person who answered the phone, as expected, so I simply had to wait.

I wake up one-morning last week after nearly a month in limbo, and hallelujah, the package was released by customs. I receive the package only to find 15 knives from the package missing. No note in there, nothing, just the yellow tape on the outside of the box. I received a notice a few days later that 15 of the knives were deemed to be prohibited weapons. 1 was classified as an automatic knife, and 14 were classified as centrifugal.

I'm assuming they classified the Jernigan Torreya Linerlock as the "automatic knife"

Here's the kicker. Among the 15 "centrifugal" knives:

1 was a Rat Model 1
2 were a Rat Model 2
4 were Kabar Doziers
3 were Outdoor Edge Onyx Lite Lockbacks
2 were Outdoor Edge Grip Lite Black

You have to be kidding right! NO flipper, NO spring, NO gravity, nothing. This is an obscenity.

The other 2 were various flippers like the Real Steel Thor.

Words can't even describe how amazed I am at this very obvious overreach by the CBSA. I'm super livid and had to vent. I'll be writing to my local MP Peter Van Loan about this blatant act of stupidity.

Thanks for listening to my rant. Canada as we know it is slowly dying...

Any time you order knives to Canada tell the person shipping them to tighten down the pivots until the knives can barely open. Then they will get across.

Why would they think that Jernigan Torreya knife was automatic? What makes you think that is the one?

 

[shikodo]

shikodo This sucks!

"This product is only available in the United States. Canadian law currently prohibits the import, sale, or carrying of flipper/assisted opening knives."

This must have just happened if not wow. My local knife store here in the GTA if full of them! going to go by on monday to see if this is new or what!

ZT has it wrong as it's not Canadian Law, that's the crazy part. I'm guessing your store is S&R. I've tried a couple of times to catch Sean or Rodney at the store but have missed them. I'm not sure how they're getting their stock across.

Why would they think that Jernigan Torreya knife was automatic? What makes you think that is the one?

Honestly, I think it was the Torreya simply because it opens faster than the others in the shipment due to the IKBS. What concerns me the most, however, are the outdoor edge, RATs, and Doziers. The CBSA, under this liberal govt is setting a dangerous precedent by arbitrarily stopping these regular folding knives. I'll talk to my supplier about tightening things down, not sure if they will do that for large shipments though.

 

[Lapedog]

ZT has it wrong as it's not Canadian Law, that's the crazy part. I'm guessing your store is S&R. I've tried a couple of times to catch Sean or Rodney at the store but have missed them. I'm not sure how they're getting their stock across.



Honestly, I think it was the Torreya simply because it opens faster than the others in the shipment due to the IKBS. What concerns me the most, however, are the outdoor edge, RATs, and Doziers. The CBSA, under this liberal govt is setting a dangerous precedent by arbitrarily stopping these regular folding knives. I'll talk to my supplier about tightening things down, not sure if they will do that for large shipments though.

Yeah that is my store. Rodney and Shawn are my BOYS! (Especially shawn). I might have to approach them with a drug smuggling operation since they can get it across the border somehow.

Please note that I have been hearing about flippers and assisteds becoming illegal in Canada for a while now. I don't know if it is true or not because I haven't seen any proof either way. Canada's knife laws are already vauge enough as is.

I think the main reason ZT and many others are not sending flippers is because when functioning how they are supposed to, (One flip and they're open) they are illegal. Technically a thumb stud knife that you can only open in one motion by giving intense wrist is ALSO illegal in Canada.

Most companies tighten down the pivot to ship them across the border. (Shawn actually told me about this trick) which on some folders risks damage. Particularly folders like the Spyderco Advocate where overtightening the pivot can crush the supporting washers the bearings glide on.

 

[stabman]

I think the main reason ZT and many others are not sending flippers is because when functioning how they are supposed to, (One flip and they're open) they are illegal. Technically a thumb stud knife that you can only open in one motion by giving intense wrist is ALSO illegal in Canada.

Wrong.

It is only if the knife flicks open by wrist action from when it is fully closed that it is illegal.
A flipper is legal.
An assisted opener (flipper or stud) is legal.
A knife that you can flick open the rest of the way after opening it somewhat is legal.

The Border folks are just being dorks.

 

[Lapedog]

Wrong.

It is only if the knife flicks open by wrist action from when it is fully closed that it is illegal.
A flipper is legal.
An assisted opener (flipper or stud) is legal.
A knife that you can flick open the rest of the way after opening it somewhat is legal.

The Border folks are just being dorks.

That was true but they seem to have new orders. They seem to be targeting flippers especially. What seems to get many knives stopped is being able to open them in one motion even with wrist flick. (They try to claim it is centrifugal force knife)

I am just talking about the border, notnthe actual laws, which are vague and based on intent.

 

[stabman]

I am just talking about the border, not the actual laws, which are vague and based on intent.

Ah, the Border...yeah, it sucks.

 

[Switchblade_renegade]

Canadian border security seems to do whatever the heck they want nowadays! Being a knife collector in Canada is not easy, especially when all the good knives are made in U.S.A!! I've gotten a few letters myself over the years but lately CBSA are illegally confiscating knives that are simply not illegal in the first place! Just simply because of how easy it can be opened.

 

[Zidfeldts]

They have done it for years. I lost a couple 7 or 8 years ago that we're just liner locks with thumb studs. They are just thieves with uniforms.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Oh its nothing new, CSBA has always played fast and loose with the rules, its just that most people never cared. They were caught running mass illegal surveillance ten years ago and it barely made the news, because "security". They have less oversight than CSIS and answer to no one. And it has nothing to do with politics, they've been given cart blanche by all parties.