Lathe belt - grain direction - skive and glue up question

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I've got a question for the knowledgeable leather workers

Which way does the grain run and how can I tell by looking at it?


Backround and a little venting.

I've got a little South-bend lathe 9" Model C that runs on a leather flatbelt
It's 53.5" x 15/16
Here's the original manual for belts
http://www.wewilliams.net/docs/Belt Splicing Instructions - Bulletin No 600.pdf



The original belt was skived and glued, then later split and metal laced
It's 45 years old and a bit rotten

I went to my local leather worker, showed him the original with specs and explained what it was for.

He sold me a strap, $50
He matched the black colour of the original, but that's about the only thing I didn't care about.
I thought maybe cutting a strap would be pretty simple, do on the spot kind of thing...no
I had to come back two days later - two trips to town.

I don't know much about leather
But I know this belt is NFG
I'm ticked about the quality, service and price - I shall not go back.

it's already stretched past all my adjustment= I had to make up larger turn-buckles and shanks for the adjuster
that's more stretch than the 45 year old belt had.


It seems to have stretched more on one side of the belt than the other so it's always got a wobble, wrinkle and bunching

I think he sold me belly


I know that serpentine belt conversions are popular now, but I don't want to pull it apart for fear I lose the bearing adjustment and it's not as good as it is now.



I've got this hunk of leather, I think it's shoulder 10 oz I think

I have to cut some straps, skive the ends and glue them together.

How do I tell the direction of the grain so I minimize stretching ?

I don't have skiving tools.
I was planning to use a knife or belt grinder to skive with

Is contact cement good enough?
I can't get Barge locally, only LePage

any tips ?
 
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Count, sure sorry to hear your having trouble. I was uanble to to get your link to work so I will try to answer your question as best I can without those details. Along the spine is the best place to cut straps, particularly if there is to be any load on them. Imagine a cowhide layed out flat. If you were to cut it right down the backbone you would have two pieces commonly called sides. So right along that cut on either piece would be the ideal place to cut your strap. You'd get a consistent, uniform strap with as less stretch as possible. If you didn't split the hide into two sides but cut a rectangular ish piece from the shoulder area this is a double shoulder, in that it incorporates the left shoulder and the right shoulder with the legs and neck trimmed off. To get a 53" strap out of a double shoulder you would have to cut from leg to leg so you would indeed be cutting across the grain and would likely get your end result, uneven stretching. Doubt if its a belly piece. While belly pieces are stretchy, getting a 53" piece out of one without running into some other kind of major flaw would be unusual. Double sholders are great for most projects such as a belt for your jeans, holsters, sheaths etc but these items don't really apply andy load to the leather. This evening I will be starting a rifle scabbard from a fresh side and the first thing I will do I will cut the straps along the backbone, then I will cut out the scabbard body. This is so important that back when I was making shotgun chaps I would price 2 sides into the price of the project. Even though most of the time I could get both legs out of one side. If I didn't cut the chap leg along the back bone (top) of the side the legs would stretch differently. So I would think you would want a strap cut along the top of a side of leather for your application.

Your belt grinder would be perfect for skiving to make your joints. You will be able to get nice smooth ones that way. I'm unfamilar with Le Paige. I use Weldwood contact cement in the green can. Its actually used for flooring in construction. I feel it makes a stronger bond than Barge. Whether it would be strong enough for your job I don't know.
 
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Dave, in lieu of buying a side, could he use a "bend" cut? Only thing is that they don't include the shoulder so might be hard finding one long enough? In any case, I learned a lot from your reply. Maybe we could bug one of you experts to write a thread on the cuts and properties.

Count, sorry I can't add anything of value. I will say that I've tested (informally) a few different contact cements to failure and I recommend off the shelf Weldwood if you can get it. They sell it at Walmart and big box hardware stores. I prefer the Gel formula, but for ultimate strength I'd use the regular stuff.
 
Count, we had belt driven lathes in our shop at work and I remember the old guys would wet the leather and hang some weight on them to pre-stretch them. They would splice them together with belting cleats instead of glue. The cleats would be squeezed into the leather so they wouldnt scar the pulleys. maybe you can shorten your belt and re-glue it. dont give up.
 
You know, I use a lot of spray "belt dressing" at the factory, granted the belts are all rubber, but I believe it would work on leather as well. Only useful for a slipping belt, but I can run a few extra days without having to shut down the plant for maintenance.
 
Thanks for the replys

I have belt dressing, that can must be as old as I am
It's a wonder it hasn't clogged up

I'll have to see about getting a new can, as any new belt will take quite a bit



I have a little jig for clamping in the belt lacing, I just don't' have any of the metal staples
I'll have to dig around, just because I can't find them doesn't mean I don't have them.


I'm going to have to remember to put the belt on smooth hair side down for gription.
 
if your more interested in using the machine you may want to go to a link belt its easyer to get in the right size (just take out or put in links) you will need to find the width of the belt and if its a v belt or whatnot. i havent had a belt fail or wear out on one of my machines yet but i do think the link belts are louder then standard belts when turning.
 
My Southbend uses a serpentine and rubber cement. I got it from the previous owner that way, and it seems to work fine.

The 9" shouldn't lose the bearing adjustment if you keep the same shims in place.
 
GothicVash said:
if your more interested in using the machine you may want to go to a link belt its easyer to get in the right size (just take out or put in links) you will need to find the width of the belt and if its a v belt or whatnot. i havent had a belt fail or wear out on one of my machines yet but i do think the link belts are louder then standard belts when turning.
Click to expand...

Gothic

Thanks for your reply - your first post !
I'm honoured


I'm familiar with the Fenner linked belts, but as far as I see they are only for V belts


This lathe uses one V belt and one flat leather belt

I had no trouble going to the local TSC and getting the vbelt off their belt wall
I got the right one there, on my first try.

12712-B.jpg



The other solution for me is synthetic belting and staples, as I have a belt lacing machine - just no staples
The down side is that you have to buy a 200 year supply and having to special order that here would cost stupid $


I've got the leather and I'm cutting and skiving to see how it goes.

If it fails, I've got nothing to really lose,
plus I'm looking foward to not hearing the tick tick tick of the staples as they go round the pulley.
 
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