LC200N driving me crazy

R

RugerNurse

Joined
Jul 13, 2019
Messages
650
I have been battling with the Lc200n salt knife for some time. Sharpen it on the Worksharp precision, trying to make sure it get deburred well, feels like it’s very sharp, cuts paper with no hang ups. Then I use to cut something simple and the edge doesn’t cut much at all. I don’t understand
 
I’ve tried various things like very lighting using the stone to remove or running it through wood gently to remove it
 
RugerNurse said:
I have been battling with the Lc200n salt knife for some time. Sharpen it on the Worksharp precision, trying to make sure it get deburred well, feels like it’s very sharp, cuts paper with no hang ups. Then I use to cut something simple and the edge doesn’t cut much at all. I don’t understand
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It's hard to know for sure. It sounds like you are not properly removing the burr but that's a guess.

Also, compared to what? It isn't a steel that generally is going to have great edge retention. It should be comparable to something like 14C28N performance wise.
RugerNurse said:
I’ve tried various things like very lighting using the stone to remove or running it through wood gently to remove it
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I'm not a fan of running the edge through cork/wood. Some people swear by it though so...

The only advise I would give is just try to flop the burr to each side a few times on your finishing stone with light pressure and after that finish with alternate, very light edge leading passes to finish. A few light passes on a strop can refine it further as well.

Not that it is definitely a burr issue in your case, but IME deburring properly can be the difference between really great results vs mediocre especially for edge retention.
 
chalby said:
It's hard to know for sure. It sounds like you are not properly removing the burr but that's a guess.

Also, compared to what? It isn't a steel that generally is going to have great edge retention. It should be comparable to something like 14C28N performance wise.

I'm not a fan of running the edge through cork/wood. Some people swear by it though so...

The only advise I would give is just try to flop the burr to each side a few times on your finishing stone with light pressure and after that finish with alternate, very light edge leading passes to finish. A few light passes on a strop can refine it further as well.

Not that it is definitely a burr issue in your case, but IME deburring properly can be the difference between really great results vs mediocre especially for edge retention.
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Thanks for your help. I know LC200N isn’t a superstar at edge retention but I cut some chicken on a plastic takeout plate for my kids and the tip of the knife could barely cut paper. Made no sense to me. It happens all the time with it. Maybe it was a lemon on the heat treat
 
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RugerNurse said:
Thanks for your help. I know LC200N isn’t a superstar at edge retention but I cut some chicken on a plastic takeout plate for my kids and the tip of the knife could barely cut paper. Made no sense to me. It happens all the time with it. Maybe it was a lemon on the heat treat
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I would be surprised if the heat treat is bad. Spyderco generally nails it.
 
What edge angle? Are you following the factory edge or did you change it?

Like s30v, lc200n performs well with a polished edge.
 
I worry the worksharp is getting the edge a bit too hot and cooking the edge some. I know everyone swears by them but any belt grinder can overheat an edge.
 
thebrain said:
I worry the worksharp is getting the edge a bit too hot and cooking the edge some. I know everyone swears by them but any belt grinder can overheat an edge.
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You're thinking of the Worksharp belt sharpener. I think the OP is using the Worksharp Precision Adjust(or similar) which is a guided system similar to a KME or TSProf
 
or running it through wood gently to remove it
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When sharpening you can form some sort of more resilient bur that looks like an edge and it cuts paper but as soon as you cut something this burr folds over and the knife won't cut any more. This burr will not rip off by dragging the edge through the wood….it just folds over.

After sharpening and stropping I first look the edge with my 60x loupe. Then (if I can see no burr) I always drag the edge gently a few times through the wood. If it still cuts paper and shaves I'm good. If not I do some more burr removal.

This also works for my 50HRc cheap knife so soft steel or bad heat treatment should not stop you getting burr free edge.
 
TheOne45 said:
When sharpening you can form some sort of more resilient bur that looks like an edge and it cuts paper but as soon as you cut something this burr folds over and the knife won't cut any more. This burr will not rip off by dragging the edge through the wood….it just folds over.

After sharpening and stropping I first look the edge with my 60x loupe. Then (if I can see no burr) I always drag the edge gently a few times through the wood. If it still cuts paper and shaves I'm good. If not I do some more burr removal.

This also works for my 50HRc cheap knife so soft steel or bad heat treatment should not stop you getting burr free edge.
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Does the strop remove the burr?
 
RugerNurse said:
Does the strop remove the burr?
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Yes.
Two ways to remove a burr as far as I know:
-to make a micro bevel
-to strop

One way to sharpen a knife is to follow the most common practice on this forum – sharpen one side of the bevel till you form a burr then repeat the same on the other side of the bevel.
So…there is a burr you need to deal with.
Then you do some gentle alternating strokes at sharpening angle (minimal pressure - just weight of the knife) to minimize the burr as much as possible and then you decide how to remove it ….. alternating high angle passes (micro bevel) or strop.
 
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Two things i can think of that may be going on here. first, you mentioned specifically that "the tip of the knife" couldn't cut paper. The tip is always the hardest part for me in clamped systems like the WS precision. The way the blade is clamped, combined with slightly imperfect grinds from heel to tip can mean at the heel you are hitting the whole edge bevel when you are sharpening, but at the tip you aren't quite getting there.

so when you go to test the edge on paper, you are cutting no issue, but then when you go to use the tip on something specifically after sharpening, you notice the very tip didn't get hit. Try and get a cheap jewlers loup online and use that to see if you are hitting the apex of the edge bevel, or feel for a consistent burr along the length of the edge.

The other, and probably less likely possibility is that you you have a wire edge. I would think that is harder to get with LC200N than it is with softer steel, but it is possible that the stropping/deburring process is just straightening out this wire edge and then when you put pressure on it more than a piece of paper, like cutting a sandwhich on plastic, it rolls that wire edge over. Fatiguing the apex of the edge with some very light passes might help, or that firmer leather it sounds like you are already trying could do the trick.
 
c7m2p3 said:
Two things i can think of that may be going on here. first, you mentioned specifically that "the tip of the knife" couldn't cut paper. The tip is always the hardest part for me in clamped systems like the WS precision. The way the blade is clamped, combined with slightly imperfect grinds from heel to tip can mean at the heel you are hitting the whole edge bevel when you are sharpening, but at the tip you aren't quite getting there.

so when you go to test the edge on paper, you are cutting no issue, but then when you go to use the tip on something specifically after sharpening, you notice the very tip didn't get hit. Try and get a cheap jewlers loup online and use that to see if you are hitting the apex of the edge bevel, or feel for a consistent burr along the length of the edge.

The other, and probably less likely possibility is that you you have a wire edge. I would think that is harder to get with LC200N than it is with softer steel, but it is possible that the stropping/deburring process is just straightening out this wire edge and then when you put pressure on it more than a piece of paper, like cutting a sandwhich on plastic, it rolls that wire edge over. Fatiguing the apex of the edge with some very light passes might help, or that firmer leather it sounds like you are already trying could do the trick.
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The tip is always hard on those fixed angle sharpeners. Seems like the grind at the tip is always off on most knives. I spent a long time over many months gradually evening out the angle from heel to tip at 17°.
I tried an experiment after I sharpened it again the other day and tried to be careful to remove the burr in between grits and hit the edge hard on a glass edge. Only a tiny roll occurred, which is better than it has been in the past. I resharpened the entire blade again with the “sawing” motion on the Worksharp and even removed the burr with a sawing motion at a very light pressure. Finished the edge with the 800 grit and then stropped on the dense leather. The knife could cut a paper towel pretty easily and glides through paper like butter. I’ll see how this edge holds up.
Using the saw motion seems to get better results. Trying in one direction from heel to tip seems to make it worse. Maybe it’s all in my head 😜
 
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