Learn by imitation?

Joined
Aug 20, 2018
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115
Hi BF, I'm new to knifemaking and am working on my second and third knives.

I remember from history class that during the Renaissance period, apprentices learned by copying the work of their masters as well as other master artists. This was a way for them to understand the fundamental techniques and ideas behind what they were doing.

While there are obviously styles I like and ones that I don't, I want to use that Renaissance technique to accelerate my learning process. I've learned about proportions, grinds, etc. by physically recreating them. I'm one of those people that learn by doing, not by reading. Once I recreate a few knives, I'll have a much better understanding of what I want to do that comes from my own mind.

My first knife was a recreation of a Kephart, taken from the discriptive text of Kephart in one of his books. I don't believe there is an issue with infringement because the knife is immediately recognized as a Kephart.

Now here's my question: is it frowned upon to recreate existing knives when beginning knife making? Not 100% identical, but very close, and something that would obviously be seen as a recreation, just much less refined. I like the Bose Lanny's Clip pattern, but am sticking with fixed blades for the time being. And sure enough, there was a Koch Tools/Enrique Pena designed Lanny's Clip fixed blade. If I were to recreate that knife by Pena, which was designed by Bose, is that wrong in the eyes of the knife making community? I would not be passing it off as my own design, and would acknowledge that it is a recreation of another knife-maker's design. And I also wouldn't be selling it, it would be for my personal use.

My third knife is a recreation of Kyle Ver Steeg's Imp. I am very interested in ergonomics, and who better to learn from than a hand surgeon who's also a knifemaker?

Am I supposed to get permission from the makers before recreating them? Or can I post photos to get critiques of my technique as long as I provide attribution to the respective makers/designers of the knives that I recreate?

I am trying to be respectful, and understand how the ethics and values of the knife making community handle this aspect of the learning process. My goal is to learn as fast as I can so that I can create my own designs that are grounded in solid foundations of design.
 
I’m far from the foremost authority on the subject but here is my $.02.

Being a new knife maker I do not believe anyone will mistake a knife you make for a knife “patterned by its original maker”. Where I see it becoming a problem is being pawned off as an original, a counterfeit, or using copyrighted / proprietary trademarks.
As a new maker you can only be influenced be what has been done before you.
 
Being a new knife maker I do not believe anyone will mistake a knife you make for a knife “patterned by its original maker”.
Lol very true. I don't think anyone would mistake my copy as an original. Like a Mona Lisa painting done in crayon ;) Just wanted to make sure that it's not frowned upon in the community to be inspired to try to make the same knife pattern if it's a unique design. So far it sounds like I'm ok as long as I attribute properly.
 
As you stated, copying has been the go to method for students for centuries. I see no problem with it as long as you are making the knives for yourself. Your instincts are good. Just give credit to the original when doing close copies. Attribution for knives that are "influenced by" others and that use styling cues reminiscent of the original is not as important. If you plan on selling the knives, prior permission from the original maker would be advised.
 
i do not think it is frowned upon, maybe by some.. my main influence is bob loveless knives. i did not feel like i needed permission, since my first knife book on how to make them was by bob loveless in 2004, and i have a video with him showing every step of how he makes a knife. from those resources i have gathered he would not mind if someone copies his techniques. i always name the designer out of respect. i learned to be a professional musician simply by copying others, never took a lesson. the renaissance method works good too.
 
While paying homage is very respectful, unless a particular maker has a patent or copy right on a particular design- there is nothing preventing anyone from making similar items for sale. There are darned few copy righted or patented designs, BTW.
There are probably no knife patterns that have not been copied numerous times. Knives have been around for quite a while.
 
A knife is a sharp piece of metal with a handle on it.
That's been done a billion times before.
 
While paying homage is very respectful, unless a particular maker has a patent or copy right on a particular design- there is nothing preventing anyone from making similar items for sale. There are darned few copy righted or patented designs, BTW.
There are probably no knife patterns that have not been copied numerous times. Knives have been around for quite a while.
This! ^^^..I came up with a original pattern for a vegetable chopper! I was so proud etc until about 3 years later when I saw a picture of a Spanish knife pattern, that was a couple of hundred years old & almost exactly the dimensions as my original:rolleyes: ! LOL .
 
While paying homage is very respectful, unless a particular maker has a patent or copy right on a particular design- there is nothing preventing anyone from making similar items for sale. There are darned few copy righted or patented designs, BTW.
There are probably no knife patterns that have not been copied numerous times. Knives have been around for quite a while.
Indeed and in the day of the internet if you post a drawing or written content not copy written you relinquish any rights because it can be traced back as open source so be careful not to give away anything you want to copywrite.
 
Unless you are very lucky, I don’t think you will design great knives to start out. I have made about 11 knives so far, every single one was something someone else made first and better. I made one Gough Knife, three or four DB blades knives, and the rest were taken from the Internet. Only a blind person would think they were good copies. But it has taught me a lot about what I like my final knives to look like. So basically, I make DB Blades D6 copies mostly now. I am working on about 20 knives at the
moment and about 10 are D6 look a likes.
 
I know a maker who claimed they were the first to combine the blade style of one maker and the handle style of another. They got rather pissy at me when I made a knife they thought I was copying them.

Now mind you the blade style was not theirs, the handle style was not theirs. They thought they owned the design simply because they put the two together.

When I showed them Bob Dozier had combined that blade style and handle style years ago they got mad, and blocked me.

It goes to show how some makers have delusions of grandeur.

If people gave credit sales ads would be filled with the name Michael Walker, Bob Loveless, Scagel
 
I am, apparently, the most prolific knife designer in China!
Everything is now a "Bill DeShivs Leverletto by AKC!
 
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