Learning from other knifemakers/competitors

golok

golok

Joined
Oct 20, 2000
Messages
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I wonder how knifemakers view their competitors' products.

It has been said several times in the past that knifemakers do learn from one another.

Since the market is rather limited in size and the custom knifemakers have to compete with the bigger, more well organised knife companies, there is bound to be some undercurrent competition.

How do the makers get together to pick each other's brains for that added knowledge. Knife shows are probably one opportunity for learning more.

What about the "juniors" in the field? How do they go about it?
 
A lot of information is gathered at knife shows, hammer-ins, knife clubs, and forum sites. I'd have to say that most of the information is available via the knifemaking forums. I've never asked a question of a knifemaker that wasn't answered. Most knifemakers are pretty easy going people and they know that the only way for their craft to stay alive is to pass on what they know to each other and more importantly to newcomers. Bill Moran is a prime example. Look at the number of bladesmiths that have learned from him and have passed on the techniques to others.
 
I have been making knives for about 13 years and I really didn't know of any one that could help when I started. The more I learned, the more I found out that the knife makers I know consider each other as supporters of the trade. Not competitors for the knife buying market. I don't make knives like most and most don't make knives like each other. Being able to make what the customer wants is one of the biggest thrills of knife making that I know of.
In order for the custom knife maker to prosper, he has to see that everything that goes into a quality knife, is done. Sometimes the buying public that is not familiar with custom knives will buy one that isn't as good as it could have been. THAT reflects on all custom makers.
I have a ways to go to reach my goals in knife making and without the help and support of all my friends and family, it would be very hard. This is why I consider all knifemakers to be "BROTHERS IN STEEL"
 
I love forging with other bladesmiths. We get ideas and pass each other tips the whole time and usually end up with better work than if we forged alone.

Tim
 
I've always believed that since you can never pay back what you learn and get out of knifemaking, you have to pay forward by helping others along the way. I think Ray's "BROTHERS IN STEEL" analogy is a good one. Helping someone get started in knifemaking is especially rewarding.
 
There are a few "secrets" in knife making. And there are a few makers (no, I won't name names!) who are not liked, despised, or down right crooks.

But for the most part, you will be hard pressed to find a more supportive bunch!

If you look at the knife in my Avatar, you will see the first knife I have sold. And I never would have made ONE knfie if it wouldn't have been for the help I got.

I have talked to the following people in person, in chat, through the forums, or over e-mail: Wally Hayes, President of the Canadian Knifemaker's guild, Kit Carson, Tim Hermann, Rob Simonich, Tom Mayo, Jerry Hossom, Neil Blackwood, Mike Cooper, Mick Strider, Robert Dockrell, Matt Lamey, nick Wheeler, Alan Folts, and the list goes on. 2 special thanks must be said here. Oen goes out to Les and Carol Allen, the folks who first helped me with knives. I met Les at a gun show here (he was 1 of 2 makers there!) and he offered to let me in his shop for a day or 2 or as many as I wanted. A year later I called him, he remembered me and I spent an afternoon with him. Thanks Les. The second thanks goes out to the new hobby maker bastids, especially Eric Chang and you too James, a.k.a. samhell! We chat a lot about knives, and it is nice to have other newbies to talk to about mistakes, scrapes, burns and such! James has also given me a lot of materials, as had Mike Cooper. I have spent the last 6 years at University (1-5 to go!) and the material support I have gotten from these two great guys has helped me out more than they know. Another thanks goes out to Chuck Bybee, for giving me a great deal on g-10 after seeing that I was using dymondwood. He asked for pics of a knife I make with the material (see avatar again) and after seeing the pics, he sent me a stabilized, gorgeous block of spalted maple burl.

I am 24, going to school here in Lethbridge, Alberta, population 69 000. I have never been to a knife show, and I don't have a lot of disposable income. But what I do have is this INCREDIBLE support network of makers out there. My experiences with knfie makers in the past has made me feel confident that I can at least e-mail a maker whom i don't know, and I'll get a positive response. You don't get into knife makign because you want to become a millionare. Knife makers make knives because they are knfie nuts! And knife nuts share, because sharing allows them to enjoy knives even more.

I know this post is a bit long, but I hope it gives you a feel of how supportive makers are, from a newbie hobby maker perspective.
 
Let me add from a collectors point of veiw.

I live 35 miles from Old Washington, AR. Being so close I get to meet alot of makers. I remember when I first started to attend the hammer-ins and other events how astonished I was at the flow of information from one maker to another. They are very liberal with sharing their knowledge. It's almost like if they didn't, they would be "blackballed".

One of the most memorable times I have had there I call the table of knowledge. One Friday night at the Fall hammer-in in 2000, several of us walked across the street from the hotel to eat Mexican food. I had the privledge of sitting at the table with, get this, Jim Batson, Ken Durham, Micheal Bell, Don Fogg, and Jerry Fisk! This is one time I kept my mouth shut and LISTENED! I wish I had had a recorder at that table. The topics and information that was shared was amazing. It was like listening to professors expounding on the meaning of life. I LOVE this obsession!
 
I recall a young man who came to my shop to visit/learn, and at the end of the day he asked....."Why did you show me all that stuff?" "I'm your competition." My response was.....
"You and I could live next door to each other." "Someone could send us both a sketch of a bowie to make for them, and each of ours knives would come out a bit different, so to me your not competition." Eventhough we live in a time where information is very free and open, this was not the case in the recent past. I came into knifemaking when NOBODY would tell you anything. I like to think that when we started the Montana Knifemaker's Assoc. it helped to change all that. Shortly after, it seemed that information between makers started to flow, and all of a sudden the sky became the limit.
Anytime two or more makers get together, there is always something to be learned from each other. I have learned many things from students who have come to my shop, and try to learn something from everyone associated with knifemaking, that I come in contact with. I really don't think that "custom" makers are in competition with the factories...I feel like it's the other way around. Otherwise you would not see all of the factory collaborations happening. Most of the top factories have tried to replicate at least some of the qualities of custom knives, in hopes of giving their product a more reputable standing within the knife world.

As has been said, this is a brotherhood, and goes much deeper than any pocketbook. It is more a "people" business than anything.
 
Mike Obeneuf took your advice :D ...and he is now making some fine looking folders himself.

Andrew Limsk

Originally posted by Aaron Frederick
Or you could do like I did marry the daughter of one of the best makers in the buisness. That helps.
Click to expand...
 
"You and I could live next door to each other." "Someone could send us both a sketch of a bowie to make for them, and each of ours knives would come out a bit different, so to me your not competition."

Ed pegged it with that statement!
Everyone has their own style and ways of doing things that give their knives a certain personality. Even our physical characteristics make the knives come out different.
I love this business and believe me it's not because I'm gettin rich at it.
I love the people and freindships I've made thru my knife making!
People like Karl and Eric and Tim amaze me and I love helping them any way I can!
I am so blessed that the Father gave me my knife making!!!!!
 
We have been very forunate to know George Herron and his wonderful wife Barara. Geno actually met Mr. George at a local gun and knife show some years back and they took a likeing to each other. Without his guidance I don't know where we would be today, sure Geno has his own style and techniques but the "raises" he got as far as saveing time were from George. As far as new makers go we are glad to have anyone who wants to learn to come on over and we don't feel a threat of competeion, each individual has their own ideas but have to get in a teacher, student education of the basics of "this is what works". SCAK is a good teaching ground, anyone is free to come that has an interest.Just contact a maker such as ourself. The North Carolina Knifemakers Guild has some fantastic opportunitys as well as good guild meetings, access to Montgomery Community College that also has selected knifemakers that teach courses.Check out our web sie and we also have links to SCAK members. Cavelady:)
 
Missin ya Cavelady. Geno is doing great -:)
 
Hey Gus!!! Wish I was there and really enjoyed meeting you last year. Glad Geno is doing good:) I don't know what it is about the Atlanta Show...it is the most nerve racking "getting ready" for it show.Does anybody here who are makers go through that too? That's not why I'm not there...I had to stay here and guard the shop. Hope you have a great time and sell alot of knives Gus. You the Man!!! Cavelady
 
Don't know about selling any, (kinda quit that about 6 years ago), but I sure purchased a bunch :D.

It is amazing how much time the makers had to put in and in 6 weeks many are heading to the Guild Show. Just as a collector the show can be exhausting itself and I know it is more so on the selling side of the tables. My day yesterday started with a 5:00 A.M. wake up and the day ended at 11:30 after the show and a wonderful A.B.S. banquet.

Golok, my friend, to get this thread back on track, in my opinion the A.B.S. is the finest example (although not the only) of shared knowledge within a large extended family devoted to the advancement of knifemaking via forging. From sponsoring hammer-ins to scholarships to the Blade Smith school in Arkansas the knowledge and friendships that are there speak very highly for the future of knife making. The reach of the A.B.S. is now advancing to a world wide status. The biggest things that you notice at the organizational gatherings that I have seen is sharing, friendships and respect. I expect that the Australian, Canadian and organizations in other areas would also display those traits.
 
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