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Learning my new Edge Pro- I can't seem to get a burr on my first knife.

F

farmboy

Joined
Aug 31, 1999
Messages
731
The knife I'm trying to sharpen is an old Henkle's 6" chef's knife. I'm trying to sharpen it with a 120 grit stone set on 21 degrees. (Yellow). I've been very lightly pushing and pulling this stone for what seems to be hours, and I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, or just being impatient. I've used the felt tipped marker, and there is still a very slight mark right along the edge. I just can't get a burr.

I've used a Sharpmaker for years with the diamond rods, and it took a while, too, but I didn't expect it to take so long on the Edge Pro.

Do I need to increase the angle, or do I just need to quit whining and finish this knife? (Or maybe learn on something else?)
 
farmboy said:
The knife I'm trying to sharpen is an old Henkle's 6" chef's knife. I'm trying to sharpen it with a 120 grit stone set on 21 degrees. (Yellow). I've been very lightly pushing and pulling this stone for what seems to be hours, and I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, or just being impatient. I've used the felt tipped marker, and there is still a very slight mark right along the edge. I just can't get a burr.
Click to expand...

If there's still a slight mark along the edge, you're still not hitting it, so you're not properly reaching the apex of the edge - hence you're not going to develop a burr. So you have a couple options:

- Keep grinding the edge until you do reach the apex, making sure to grind each side evenly.
- Switch to a higher angle so you don't have as much metal to grind away.
 
You aren't forming a burr because you haven't brought the sides to an apex. The line of sharpie left on the tip shows you aren't reaching the very tip of the cutting edge. Effectively you are reprofiling the blade to 21 degrees. Reprofiling takes time as you grind away the metal to the new apex angle. Once you reach the apex at this angle the rest of the process will go very quickly. To avoid having to reprofile a blade next time use the sharpie to determine the bevel angle and sharpen at that angle.
 
Seems odd that it would take that long. Most kitchen knives have a thin edge and blade geometry that is easy to sharpen and reprofile. And, presuming you're talking about 21 degrees per side, that's a fairly obtuse edge profile for a kitchen knife. I'd expect your sharpening to go much faster with a 120-grit stone. Do you have any sense of what the old edge angle was when you started to reprofile? Did much of the Sharpie ink get removed from the edge at the beginning?

Maybe the edge was just extremely dull, with the thin blade geometry doing most of the cutting. That's a common condition with most kitchen knives.

But you're on the right track by looking for the burr and watching the ink line disappear.
 
Twindog said:
Seems odd that it would take that long. Most kitchen knives have a thin edge and blade geometry that is easy to sharpen and reprofile. And, presuming you're talking about 21 degrees per side, that's a fairly obtuse edge profile for a kitchen knife. I'd expect your sharpening to go much faster with a 120-grit stone. Do you have any sense of what the old edge angle was when you started to reprofile? Did much of the Sharpie ink get removed from the edge at the beginning?

Maybe the edge was just extremely dull, with the thin blade geometry doing most of the cutting. That's a common condition with most kitchen knives.

But you're on the right track by looking for the burr and watching the ink line disappear.
Click to expand...

The knife was exceptionally dull, I will say that. I didn't try using the sharpie until I was knee deep into the process, so I need to be using that technique a little earlier on future blade sharpening endeavors.

It's hard to say what the blade angle was offhand. I've had the knife a very long time (wedding gift 30+ years ago) and I do remember using a lansky system on it many, many years ago. God only knows what I may have been thinking back then.

I'll get this one done, but I'll know better next time.
 
Make sure to work both sides of the blade somewhat equally. If you're grinding away for 30 minutes + on one side, you'll likely form a much wider bevel on one side than the other and slightly off center the cutting edge. It's no big deal, but it's cosmetically better if you keep the bevel widths fairly close and the cutting edge centered.

What you're finding is not unusual for blades that have been used a LOT and sharpened essentially never. I get lots and lots of these to work on and they typically take me 20+ minutes using my WSKO, which is a powered belt sander. :) If it took you 2 or 3 hours with the EP I wouldn't be at all surprised.

Keep at it. Observe your work as you go. You'll get there. Best of luck to you.

Brian.
 
Knives is 30 years old. It's not just dull, it's thick behind the edge. What you are doing now is overdue maintanance, thinning the knife by removing metal behind the edge. Just sharpening to an angle will eventually leave with edge more like a sharp axe than a knife. FYI, I've seen Henkels at a stock 22 degree angle ( didn't like them, and thinned them)
 
Yeah. I think you should bring the angle to more of 18 degrees.
Keep at it. I sharpen primarily chef knives and it can take a while to get that edge apexed.
Henkle's steel is pretty soft compared to most do if shouldn't take too long.
Usually the challenge is getting rid of that burr once acquired.
Happy edges!
 
Ok, I finally bumped the angle adjustment to just under the blue line to at least make it useable. Since I have a good start, I believe I'll just start working the angle down the next time, wash, rinse, repeat.

It is sharp, I'll say that, but the edge could be thinner. I'll get there. Thanks guys.
 
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Consider how you are placing the blade on the sharpening table as it relates to the sharpening angle. If the blade is placed flat against the table (flat portion between ricasso & handle) vs. laid flat on the primary grind.

If however the knife is laid on the primary grind (making it more secure during grinding) this must be accounted for in the index angle of the sharpener. Example: your 21-dps index angle (yellow) minus the primary of say maybe ~5-dps would be the equivalent of 16-dps (this may be why it's taking so long to thin out the secondary ... ?).

Maybe you are already taking this in to account, but my guess some may not.

Regards,
 
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The first few knives on the EP can seem to take forever. Generally they are quite blunt (hence the need for an EP) , and as a result forming an apex can take a long time. The stock EP stones aren't the fastest cutters in the world either , compounding the problem. Use lots of water , and if you are not having issues keeping the knife steady don't be afraid to bear down on the first stone a little bit.

I wouldn't consider an increase in angle in this instance. 21 is steep enough.
 
farmboy said:
The knife I'm trying to sharpen is an old Henkle's 6" chef's knife. I'm trying to sharpen it with a 120 grit stone set on 21 degrees. (Yellow).
Click to expand...
Since you let it get dull, it will take time. The EP 120 grit stone sucks, frankly, for reprofiling (which is basically what you are doing). It takes longer for me to use that than a Nubatama 180grit stone.
 
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