Learning Whetstone

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Jul 30, 2021
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Anyone know of a good resource for learning how to use a whetstone correctly? Watched a bunch of YouTube videos and everyone does it differently, half of them are zoomer clickbait shit where they clearly just learned. I picked up a Shapton 1500/mid stone and want to try it on my dull cheap kitchen knives before using it on my globals. Thanks.
 
Check out Virtuovice, Big Brown Bear, Michael Christy, Cliff Stamp on YouTube. Different philosophies, but good stuff.

Experience is the best teacher in this circumstance. You will need to gain muscle memory and the ability to maintain consistency.

Start with an inexpensive knife you don't mind messing up.

Use a sharpie to mark the edge bevel.

If your stone needs soaked, make sure you allow enough time for the water to permeate. It may take 20 minutes or more.

Start slow, use light pressure. I prefer edge leading strokes.

Maintain a slurry created by your stone. Your slurry will show black coloring as steel is removed.

Use a magnifying glass to examine your edge to see how your scratch pattern is forming.
 
Check out Virtuovice, Big Brown Bear, Michael Christy, Cliff Stamp on YouTube. Different philosophies, but good stuff.

Experience is the best teacher in this circumstance. You will need to gain muscle memory and the ability to maintain consistency.

Start with an inexpensive knife you don't mind messing up.

Use a sharpie to mark the edge bevel.

If your stone needs soaked, make sure you allow enough time for the water to permeate. It may take 20 minutes or more.

Start slow, use light pressure. I prefer edge leading strokes.

Maintain a slurry created by your stone. Your slurry will show black coloring as steel is removed.

Use a magnifying glass to examine your edge to see how your scratch pattern is forming.
Awesome thank you so much. I tried tonight on an old Wustoff that has chips and stuff in the blade. I’ll check those resources out. I was also going with the edge forward, though most folks I saw were pulling the edge towards them. Thank you!
 
Anyone know of a good resource for learning how to use a whetstone correctly? Watched a bunch of YouTube videos and everyone does it differently, half of them are zoomer clickbait shit where they clearly just learned. I picked up a Shapton 1500/mid stone and want to try it on my dull cheap kitchen knives before using it on my globals. Thanks.
Hey man, I have quite a bit of sharpening experience and even sharpened professionally using waterstones for a while. I have use the Lansky system, the Edge Pro, the Wicked Edge, and the K02 before ultimately moving to benchstones and freehand only.

The following are some bits of advice from my experience:

- BASICS: grind one side exclusively until you develop an even burr across the edge, flip it, repeat it on the other side, deburr via some kind of stropping method, and sharpening at the lowest angle that your knife can handle given the work you will be asking of it.

- Your Shapton 1500 and a bare leather strop are enough to produce a hair whittling edge. You already have all of the tools you need to achieve maximum practical sharpness and I can prove that if need be. Don't get caught up in gear acquisition. You're already good to go.

- Practice on a cheapo, just like you have said you intended to, but cheapshit knives will have imperfections in their profile grinds (called the primary bevel, not the secondary, or edge bevel) which will be undetectable to the naked eye. These imperfections will reveal themselves when you sharpen the edge at a consistent angle, especially a low angle, as for kitchen cutlery. Your edge bevel will appear wavy even if you have perfect sharpening form, simply due to uneven profile grinding and warping of the blade. Ergo, do not use this as evidence that you are sharpening incorrectly and cannot figure out how. Sometimes, it really isn't your fault. Use a cheapo knife to train your muscle memory and to achieve testable sharpness (i.e. slicing paper, shaving hair, or whittling hair) and do not at all worry about the aesthetics of the knife/edge bevel. To be excruciatingly clear, only focus on sharpness results because cheap knives cannot be trusted to assess your work via aesthetic results.

- I emphatically suggest learning to sharpen ambidextrously. It is the most awkward until you get it down, then you will have the most control over stone-surface wear and you will produce the highest quality edge because you are mirroring the exact same stroke on either side. This will also allow you to use a much wider range of stones without risk of surface gouging as you will have the most consistent stroke, and the stroke you will ultimately use is the least likely to tip-gouge softer stones, as is common when sharpening "the other side" when sharpening only with your strong hand. An ambidextrous approach will also make achieving maximum sharpness via burr-minimization (repeated, single stroke side-swapping) and thus hair-whittling sharpness the quickest and least frustrating. Finally, the symmetry will produce the most aesthetically appealing results which are the most rewarding to achieve albeit not practically necessary.

- Literally just practice a lot. I'd actually recommend that you buy a King 800, 1k, or 1200 to practice on because they legitimately are excellent stones (insofar as the Honda Civic or the Toyota Corolla are excellent cars, you understand) and they are dirt cheap and you can practice on it all you want without concern for wearing out your Shapton Pro boi too soon.

- Short scrubbing strokes: better for fast material removal and higher pressure (localized pressure results in less bending of the blade, thereby less overall weirdness in feedback when sharpening)

- Long sweeping strokes: better for smoothing out your edge and lighter pressure. Transition to longer and lighter strokes once you have achieved a burr so that you can make sure to minimize any lateral drift/wobble in the apex of your edge as it moves from heel to tip. This isn't technically necessary but is good form when aiming for the best possible results.

- Pressure per inch of edge length plummets on flat sections versus curves. When sharpening on a curve, the pressure on the section of edge being abraded--because that section is so small (a tangent point)--the relative pressure rises exponentially compared to the same pressure being used on a flat section of edge. Generally speaking, you will move through your entire sharpening stroke applying the same overall amount of downward pressure with your supporting hand. More pressure means faster abrasion. You need to go heavier with pressure and/or more numerous on overall number of strokes on flat areas of an edge and you need to lighten up on the curves and/or use proportionally fewer strokes so that you abrade the curves and the flats an equivalent amount. This sounds more complicated than it really is: just pay attention to the size of your burr as you go.

- Muscle memory skills require sleep in order to develop. You are literally biologically limited to how much you will be able to progress with this stuff in a single day. Be patient and do some every day. It requires some time.


I will soon be producing some videos on this subject because there is soooo much to consider that it makes it rather overwhelming. I may be able to snap off a quick one for you, if you really wish it. I am pretty busy right now, but the subject of sharpening, and sharpening properly and well are rather dear to me.

Anyway, like I said, steps 1-3 are practice, practice, practice, and my severe recommendation is that you learn an ambidextrous stroke. All other information really just becomes self-evident as you go. Sharpening is, like, a 90-10 skillset. The fundamentals are simple so theoretical knowledge really only takes up about 10% of progressing the skill. The other 90% just comes from doing it a shitload.
 
MANDATORY WATCHING.
Murray Carter has an excellent approach to sharpening. His philosophy is effective and pragmatic. He uses a 1k edge and a 6k stone as a strop. It produces an excellent all-around edge and is one that I still frequently use today. He heavily influenced my sharpening progression and I ultimately developed a "1k edge and an 8k+ stone as a deburring/apex cleaning cleaning/strop" approach for the easiest hair whittling edge. This approach is basically cheating at knife sharpening, when considering results per unit of time investment. If you select one teacher to learn sharpening fundamentals from, use Murray Carter and this video here.

This was an excellent intro vid. I like this guy. In this video, he talks about tricks to more quickly move through the practical application of your sharpening training.

Watch literally every sharpening video by this guy. Alex is a master of effective sharpening. He achieves a hair whittling edge with very minimal time and resource investment. If Alex's videos don't give you a boner for chromium-oxide-on-leather strops, nothing will

Michael Christy doesn't really teach sharpening, but he has a fascinating channel, and he definitely shows you the stratosphere of extreme-grit hair-whittling sharpness

Cliff Stamp's entire channel basically ultimately explains to you that "geometry cuts." Watch 5 hours of Cliff Stamp and you will be bent on testing just how thin you can make your blade and just how low you can take your edge angles. It may also trigger the compulsion to sharpen on the randomest shit; don't waste your time, just use waterstones lol. I went down that rabbit hole, obsessed with achieving maximum results on minimum tooling. It was good for teaching me what I truly need but ultimately, trying to sharpen on a brick sucks ass and I don't recommend it.
 
Hey man, I have quite a bit of sharpening experience and even sharpened professionally using waterstones for a while. I have use the Lansky system, the Edge Pro, the Wicked Edge, and the K02 before ultimately moving to benchstones and freehand only.

The following are some bits of advice from my experience:

- BASICS: grind one side exclusively until you develop an even burr across the edge, flip it, repeat it on the other side, deburr via some kind of stropping method, and sharpening at the lowest angle that your knife can handle given the work you will be asking of it.

- Your Shapton 1500 and a bare leather strop are enough to produce a hair whittling edge. You already have all of the tools you need to achieve maximum practical sharpness and I can prove that if need be. Don't get caught up in gear acquisition. You're already good to go.

- Practice on a cheapo, just like you have said you intended to, but cheapshit knives will have imperfections in their profile grinds (called the primary bevel, not the secondary, or edge bevel) which will be undetectable to the naked eye. These imperfections will reveal themselves when you sharpen the edge at a consistent angle, especially a low angle, as for kitchen cutlery. Your edge bevel will appear wavy even if you have perfect sharpening form, simply due to uneven profile grinding and warping of the blade. Ergo, do not use this as evidence that you are sharpening incorrectly and cannot figure out how. Sometimes, it really isn't your fault. Use a cheapo knife to train your muscle memory and to achieve testable sharpness (i.e. slicing paper, shaving hair, or whittling hair) and do not at all worry about the aesthetics of the knife/edge bevel. To be excruciatingly clear, only focus on sharpness results because cheap knives cannot be trusted to assess your work via aesthetic results.

- I emphatically suggest learning to sharpen ambidextrously. It is the most awkward until you get it down, then you will have the most control over stone-surface wear and you will produce the highest quality edge because you are mirroring the exact same stroke on either side. This will also allow you to use a much wider range of stones without risk of surface gouging as you will have the most consistent stroke, and the stroke you will ultimately use is the least likely to tip-gouge softer stones, as is common when sharpening "the other side" when sharpening only with your strong hand. An ambidextrous approach will also make achieving maximum sharpness via burr-minimization (repeated, single stroke side-swapping) and thus hair-whittling sharpness the quickest and least frustrating. Finally, the symmetry will produce the most aesthetically appealing results which are the most rewarding to achieve albeit not practically necessary.

- Literally just practice a lot. I'd actually recommend that you buy a King 800, 1k, or 1200 to practice on because they legitimately are excellent stones (insofar as the Honda Civic or the Toyota Corolla are excellent cars, you understand) and they are dirt cheap and you can practice on it all you want without concern for wearing out your Shapton Pro boi too soon.

- Short scrubbing strokes: better for fast material removal and higher pressure (localized pressure results in less bending of the blade, thereby less overall weirdness in feedback when sharpening)

- Long sweeping strokes: better for smoothing out your edge and lighter pressure. Transition to longer and lighter strokes once you have achieved a burr so that you can make sure to minimize any lateral drift/wobble in the apex of your edge as it moves from heel to tip. This isn't technically necessary but is good form when aiming for the best possible results.

- Pressure per inch of edge length plummets on flat sections versus curves. When sharpening on a curve, the pressure on the section of edge being abraded--because that section is so small (a tangent point)--the relative pressure rises exponentially compared to the same pressure being used on a flat section of edge. Generally speaking, you will move through your entire sharpening stroke applying the same overall amount of downward pressure with your supporting hand. More pressure means faster abrasion. You need to go heavier with pressure and/or more numerous on overall number of strokes on flat areas of an edge and you need to lighten up on the curves and/or use proportionally fewer strokes so that you abrade the curves and the flats an equivalent amount. This sounds more complicated than it really is: just pay attention to the size of your burr as you go.

- Muscle memory skills require sleep in order to develop. You are literally biologically limited to how much you will be able to progress with this stuff in a single day. Be patient and do some every day. It requires some time.


I will soon be producing some videos on this subject because there is soooo much to consider that it makes it rather overwhelming. I may be able to snap off a quick one for you, if you really wish it. I am pretty busy right now, but the subject of sharpening, and sharpening properly and well are rather dear to me.

Anyway, like I said, steps 1-3 are practice, practice, practice, and my severe recommendation is that you learn an ambidextrous stroke. All other information really just becomes self-evident as you go. Sharpening is, like, a 90-10 skillset. The fundamentals are simple so theoretical knowledge really only takes up about 10% of progressing the skill. The other 90% just comes from doing it a shitload.
This is so helpful, thank you for taking the time to write that up.

I didn't really try to look at or remove the burr. One of the videos I watched recommended a "stropping stoke" on the stone after sharpening it which, to me, looked like just a few strokes at a higher angle. Tried that and it didn't really do much for me. I did try both hand/ambidextrous and that was pretty difficult, clearly a practice/repetition thing. Mostly the sound was what I was going for, having it sound the same on the up and back stroke. I'm going to practice again tonight when I get back from work. The Shapton 1500 seemed to work pretty well though, I think it'll get me to where I'm trying to go.

Thanks so much man! Can't wait to see your sharpening vids when you come out with them.
 
MANDATORY WATCHING.
Murray Carter has an excellent approach to sharpening. His philosophy is effective and pragmatic. He uses a 1k edge and a 6k stone as a strop. It produces an excellent all-around edge and is one that I still frequently use today. He heavily influenced my sharpening progression and I ultimately developed a "1k edge and an 8k+ stone as a deburring/apex cleaning cleaning/strop" approach for the easiest hair whittling edge. This approach is basically cheating at knife sharpening, when considering results per unit of time investment. If you select one teacher to learn sharpening fundamentals from, use Murray Carter and this video here.

This was an excellent intro vid. I like this guy. In this video, he talks about tricks to more quickly move through the practical application of your sharpening training.

Watch literally every sharpening video by this guy. Alex is a master of effective sharpening. He achieves a hair whittling edge with very minimal time and resource investment. If Alex's videos don't give you a boner for chromium-oxide-on-leather strops, nothing will

Michael Christy doesn't really teach sharpening, but he has a fascinating channel, and he definitely shows you the stratosphere of extreme-grit hair-whittling sharpness

Cliff Stamp's entire channel basically ultimately explains to you that "geometry cuts." Watch 5 hours of Cliff Stamp and you will be bent on testing just how thin you can make your blade and just how low you can take your edge angles. It may also trigger the compulsion to sharpen on the randomest shit; don't waste your time, just use waterstones lol. I went down that rabbit hole, obsessed with achieving maximum results on minimum tooling. It was good for teaching me what I truly need but ultimately, trying to sharpen on a brick sucks ass and I don't recommend it.
Hell yea thank you! I'll start Cliff's videos tonight!
 
The one thing I would add to what is written above: start coarse. You have all the tools you need, but getting a true coarse stone (they aren't expensive) greatly accelerated my learning. I was sharpening truly dull knives and had to reset bevels and repair damage while I learned, and doing that on 1500 grit stone can be very tiring and time-consuming. It sounds you might be in the same boat on your cheaper knives. Norton Crystolon is common, cheap, and recommended. Baryonyx American Mutt and Baryonyx Manticore are two I have and love. Word of caution: coarse stones greatly increase your speed of progress while sharpening, and the impact of mistakes.
 
This is exactly the thread I needed to see. I'm thinking of buying a QSP Penguin to practice on but didn't know where to start with for stones. Gonna go with RadialBladeworks' suggestion of the King brand.
 
The one thing I would add to what is written above: start coarse. You have all the tools you need, but getting a true coarse stone (they aren't expensive) greatly accelerated my learning. I was sharpening truly dull knives and had to reset bevels and repair damage while I learned, and doing that on 1500 grit stone can be very tiring and time-consuming. It sounds you might be in the same boat on your cheaper knives. Norton Crystolon is common, cheap, and recommended. Baryonyx American Mutt and Baryonyx Manticore are two I have and love. Word of caution: coarse stones greatly increase your speed of progress while sharpening, and the impact of mistakes.
Yea I started grinding mine for about 15 minutes on the 1500 before looking at where the blade was actually wearing down, and I was so far off from where I needed to be on the angle.
 
Yea I started grinding mine for about 15 minutes on the 1500 before looking at where the blade was actually wearing down, and I was so far off from where I needed to be on the angle.
The above-mentioned sharpie trick and frequent checks will be your friend! Good thing about the coarse stone is that it should be obvious where you're grinding, but you'll want to check more frequently.
 
Yea I started grinding mine for about 15 minutes on the 1500 before looking at where the blade was actually wearing down, and I was so far off from where I needed to be on the angle.
I have done the same thing when I started.

Visual inspection of the edge is important.
A lot of times I will do just one or two passes and check with a loupe to make sure my holding angle is correct.

Once you get familiar with sharpening you will be able to adjust to any angle.
You will also notice when you are exactly on the bevel it will feel and sound different than when you hold it too high or too low.
 
MANDATORY WATCHING.
Murray Carter has an excellent approach to sharpening. His philosophy is effective and pragmatic. He uses a 1k edge and a 6k stone as a strop. It produces an excellent all-around edge and is one that I still frequently use today. He heavily influenced my sharpening progression and I ultimately developed a "1k edge and an 8k+ stone as a deburring/apex cleaning cleaning/strop" approach for the easiest hair whittling edge. This approach is basically cheating at knife sharpening, when considering results per unit of time investment. If you select one teacher to learn sharpening fundamentals from, use Murray Carter and this video here.

This was an excellent intro vid. I like this guy. In this video, he talks about tricks to more quickly move through the practical application of your sharpening training.

Watch literally every sharpening video by this guy. Alex is a master of effective sharpening. He achieves a hair whittling edge with very minimal time and resource investment. If Alex's videos don't give you a boner for chromium-oxide-on-leather strops, nothing will

Michael Christy doesn't really teach sharpening, but he has a fascinating channel, and he definitely shows you the stratosphere of extreme-grit hair-whittling sharpness

Cliff Stamp's entire channel basically ultimately explains to you that "geometry cuts." Watch 5 hours of Cliff Stamp and you will be bent on testing just how thin you can make your blade and just how low you can take your edge angles. It may also trigger the compulsion to sharpen on the randomest shit; don't waste your time, just use waterstones lol. I went down that rabbit hole, obsessed with achieving maximum results on minimum tooling. It was good for teaching me what I truly need but ultimately, trying to sharpen on a brick sucks ass and I don't recommend it.
Watching the Murray video now and it’s so good. I got too antsy after the first fifteen minutes I went back and fixed my knife. Thank you for sharing these man. You get a warm and fuzzy feeling after you clean the blade off and check the edge and it’s noticeably sharper. So awesome.
 
Watching the Murray video now and it’s so good. I got too antsy after the first fifteen minutes I went back and fixed my knife. Thank you for sharing these man. You get a warm and fuzzy feeling after you clean the blade off and check the edge and it’s noticeably sharper. So awesome.
Haha right! It's quite rewarding, isn't it?

The following video is a quick demo of my own sharpening technique. It very closely mirrors Murray Carter's approach, however I lean into a few things a little differently. The point of the video is the demonstrate the ability to achieve what I refer to as "maximum practical sharpness," that is, the ability to whittle a hair, using nothing but the Chosera 1k and a bare leather strop. The points to note in the technique I use are the scrubbing high pressure strokes in the beginning, the tapering to longer and lighter sweeping strokes, and the increase in the frequency of switching sides progressively right through to the end. The bare leather is an absolute necessity as well. This is not something Carter uses, and typically strops are used with an abrasive compound, however the use of the abrasive strop is a slightly different application than how I use the bare leather strop.

It is a fresh upload so the 1080p and 4k version might still be processing. If so, the 360p version will likely be inadequate for showing the actual hair whittling in the end properly
 
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There's a lot of good info here. Almost too much. It's important to try to have a coherent approach when trying anything new. Information overload usually leads to poor results.

So I hesitate to provide even more info. But here I am doing it anyway. My seven secrets article is relatively coherent and covers all of the basics of sharpening. If you're already invested in another set of videos or instructions, maybe just ignore my article. If not, this is a fairly complete way of thinking about sharpening.


Brian.
 
I'll second the "Seven Secrets" as they really cover the important stuff.

The most important rule of learning to sharpen by hand:
Do not practice on knives that have value to you until you value your practice knives for the quality of their edges.

And to add to the overload, learning to mechanically control the angle you work at and to "feel" it as you work are critical skills to acquire:
 
Haha right! It's quite rewarding, isn't it?

The following video is a quick demo of my own sharpening technique. It very closely mirrors Murray Carter's approach, however I lean into a few things a little differently. The point of the video is the demonstrate the ability to achieve what I refer to as "maximum practical sharpness," that is, the ability to whittle a hair, using nothing but the Chosera 1k and a bare leather strop. The points to note in the technique I use are the scrubbing high pressure strokes in the beginning, the tapering to longer and lighter sweeping strokes, and the increase in the frequency of switching sides progressively right through to the end. The bare leather is an absolute necessity as well. This is not something Carter uses, and typically strops are used with an abrasive compound, however the use of the abrasive strop is a slightly different application than how I use the bare leather strop.

It is a fresh upload so the 1080p and 4k version might still be processing. If so, the 360p version will likely be inadequate for showing the actual hair whittling in the end properly
Awesome man, great video! That came out awesome, can't believe you were able to get that done on just one stone. Nice work!!!
 
As Nike would say, Just Do It :)

First few times I did it on expensive Shuns, I put painters tape on it so I dont scratch it up lol...they work good.
 
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