Least Innovative American Knife Manufacturer?

Jedi Knife

Jedi Knife

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Which American made knife company would you vote for as the least innovative knife manufacturer? By "least innovative" I mean which company (American) has done the least to make their products any better through design, such as making knives lighter, easier to carry, or safer to use? One example could be a manufacturer who makes the same mediocre knives with little more than different colored handles or logo designs year after year. Whom would you vote for?

JK
 
This doesn't seem like a thread that has the potential for edification, but I'll try my diplomatic best.

Innovation's a funny thing - usually the market will dictate the level required. Some examples:

For folks like us who demand constant innovation, the Spyderco's & Benchmades are the brands for us. They alter their product line often with new designs, collaborations, steels, scale materials, locks, etc., and we keep buying.

For other collectors, maybe all they want to collect is every possible 3 inch Case stockman - Red bone, Yellow bone, stag, brown jigged, etc., etc., and they will keep buying the same 3 inch Stockman (a 100 or more yr. old design) with the different handle. Other than the one-handed "Russ-Lock", I don't think Case has put out a new design in 20 years - yet they have no problem maintaining their market superiority with folks who like that kind of product.

How about SAK's ? Pretty unchanged for 50 years.

Buck? Schrade? Gerber? Cammillus?

These more "traditional" makers have all put out "innovative" designs in the last few years, with varying success. Part of the reason might be snobs like us who think "If I want a pen knife for Grandpa, I'll get a Buck. If I want a cool new toy for me, I'll get a (tactical maker)".

My Dad would much rather have a Buck 110 than any of my newfangled Zytel, ATS-xx folders. He would also rather walk than drive a front-wheel drive car, and there's an example of the market closing in on him as tastes have changed.

Diff'rent strokes, I guess.
 
SAK's both Victorinox and Wenger are Swiss, so they wouldn't fall into the "American" category, but there have not been any "innovative" changes from either company in years. I think if I had to choose it would probably be Case.
 
I'm with el cid on this. While Case produces some really nice pocket knives, there really hasn't been anything "earth shattering" to come out of Bradford, PA that I can recall. The Tri-Fold thing? Puh-leeze, that thing is as cumbersome as the Cold Steel Triple Action folder. And what's the point of the Russ-Lock anyway? If they're going to make a one hander, go with studs or holes in the blade. That's the most awkward to open one hander I have ever handled.

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Proud member of AKTI, NCCKG, NCKK, and SCAK

In memory of James K. Mattis
 
Hi Jedi. I thought perhaps to widen the subject a bit, if that's ok with you?

First, I must assume that are not thinking of innovation as necessarily "better", just innovation as a reality.

RH's post is (IMO) quite astute.

"Girls" haven't changed much in 5,000 years and yet the guys still go for them. An innovative girl with two noses or ? might not be well received.

Innovation is rare and difficult to create on demand. That's why there is much going on about "intellectual property" in the world today.

In any industry, there will be the innovators, usually about 10% to 15%. The rest must copy, or hold a niche, or go under.

Many innovations are not good changes. Time culls the useable ideas from the fads. I can recall more than one "innovative" product on the cover of a knife magazine that didn't last a year.

Innovation is EXPENSIVE! Many companies would prefer to put their money into other areas. To be innovative is steel, testing equipment alone could run hundreds of thousands of dollars.

There is much security in the "tried and true". It is usually the younger sets that are attracted to "new" because they can "begin on a more even ground" in the knowledge department.

These are just some of my opinions, but I thought to share them.

sal
 
Yes, I have to agree Sal, I prefer the Mk1 Mod0 Girl(babe, hot, one each, individual.) myself and don't need innovation. You shouldn't mess with success and a proven design will always be popular.

I've seen a lot of "innovation" for it's own sake over the years and most of it quickly falls by the wayside. Maybe one innovative idea in 100 gets snapped up and becomes popular because of it's merits, rather than it's "Cool factor."
I think this is healthy for the industry overall. It's evolution in it's purest form.

Jedi,
By the standards you mention, ...such as making knives lighter, easier to carry, or safer to use?
The first maker that comes to mind is Randall Knives.
Their knives are no lighter, easier to carry, or safer to use than they were 50 years ago. This may indicate that they're not innovative, but thank God for small favors eh?
You can still buy a Randall Model 14 for less than the cost of a CS Trailmaster!



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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
 
How about S and W? They just copy everyone else like when they copied Darrell's neck knife design with the whistle sheath?
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by lifter4Him@aol.com:
How about S and W? They just copy everyone else like when they copied Darrell's neck knife design with the whistle sheath?</font>
Click to expand...

This particular wrong has been righted, and in the process, S&W is stepping up with a relatively innovative design using a fairly innovative material. Unfortunately, NO ONE SNAPPED A PIC AT SHOT! (Also unfortunately, it will not involve a whistle.
frown.gif
Hey - I'm sorry, whistles are FUN!)

I would say that Frost Cutlery continues to put out the same crap, using the same crap materials, year after year. One might argue that their designs are "innovative", but is it innovation, or simply marketing to adolescent imaginations?
 
Thanks for the insight, gentlemen. The more I think about it, the more I have to say my vote goes to Case. They have done little more than change handle colors and logo shields ver the past several years. I will readily admit that Frost Cutlery makes really junk knives, but even they have enough sense to try new designs- most of their junk is Chinese or Pakistani anyway. Randall and Marbles knives are close runners up, although I will admit I'm not totally familiar with Randall's entire product line.
I agree totally with Mr.Ewing- the Russ-Lock is just not that great of a design, to be very nice about it.
Going with what Mr.Glesser offered, I gain a whole new appreciation for companies like Spyderco, Benchmade, Leatherman, and even Buck Knives for their research and development. When I buy knives now, the companies who innovate will get my money.

JK
 
About three months ago, I expressed my opinion that it is the knife companies (Spyderco, etc) and not the custom makers who are today's innovators.
And those truly useful innovations are getting out to the ELU's en masse.
Purpose driven innovation is good from whomever comes out with an idea.
John

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A day without Spydies is like a day without ... WELL, Spydies!!!
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dexter Ewing:
Brian Turner wrote:

Brian, does this mean pigs will fly?
biggrin.gif

</font>
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All the way between England and Ohio...
biggrin.gif
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dexter Ewing:
The Tri-Fold thing? Puh-leeze, that thing is as cumbersome as the Cold Steel Triple Action folder</font>
Click to expand...

Dexter, I can easily open or close my tri-fold with either of my arthritic hands. The handle is smooth and does not tear my pocket. It is so light-weight, I can forget I'm carrying it. When I use it in public, no one flinches, and I'll bet it's the last knife an airline would ban. It only cost $12, which I think is still Smoky Mountain's price for it.

I do tend to carry La Griffe, Sebenza, Kershaw Talon, Benchmade Ares, Leatherman Supertool ... but I like to know I've got a down-and-dirty little worker available that I can take anywhere and not have to apologize for or worry about.

 
Another American manufacturer that has not been very innovative is CRK. He has stuck with excellent, well made, tried and true designs, and that is just fine by me.
I have nothing against innovation. Trying to make something better is a worthwhile endeavor, but sometimes the status quo is the way to go.
Keith.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by colobbfan:
About three months ago, I expressed my opinion that it is the knife companies (Spyderco, etc) and not the custom makers who are today's innovators.</font>
Click to expand...

But most of those companies' innovations are collaborations with custom makers. Look at Kershaw, Camillus, Benchmade, most of their innovations are collaborations. I am not familiar with Spyderco's whole line, but I know they do a lot of collaborations too. I think that one of the main reasons we are seeing so many innovations in production knives these days is because production companies are turning to innovative custom makers for ideas and designs.


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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"Paradise lies in the shadow of swords." - Nietzsche
 
I know that they are not American companies but I have to disagree about Wegner and Victorinox not being creative. What about the Midnite Minichamp or the Cybertool or the Swisstool? There have also been serrated SAKs. I think the companies do a decent job of staying current within their fundamental concept.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Another American manufacturer that has not been very
innovative is CRK. He has stuck with excellent, well made, tried
and true designs, and that is just fine by me.</font>
Click to expand...

Keith,

I think that the Sebenzas are fairly innovative, what with the pocket clip and one hand opening and solid "frame lock" type locking mechanism. I can't think of any way to change their design that would make them any better. I'm sure that if the Sebenzas could be improved then CRK would do more than just change the color pattern or logo and market them as "collectables", year after year.

JK
 
In reference to CRK's Sebenza, why not make the blade tang ramp concave rather than flat to the extent that it would be nearly impossible for the locking bar to wear all the way to the other side? The old BM Sentinel was done this way. That would be an innovation that would have me carrying and using my Sebenza daily.

Professor.
 
JK, I agree that when the Sebenza was introduced many years ago that it was a very innovative knife. Things have not changed in that design in years, and to tell you the truth, I do not see a reason to change them. My point was that CRK have built basicly the same kind of knives for years unlike the current trend to try to find something new, to create interest, almost every year. I amof the school of if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
Keith.
 
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