Leather sheath finihing..

C

CaptainPicardX

BANNED
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
286
Okay, I was trying to get a leather sheath made for my Mora Bushcraft black, w/ firesteel, but every time I asked for a quote it was 3-4 times the price of the knife. So I decided to make my own. Needles to say I still ended up spending money on leatherworking supplies, but at least I can make many many sheaths to come, especially for my other knives. Anyway, I made a small sheath and had to drill it with a cordless drill, (no drill press, I dont feel like using the stitching awl) but it worked just fine. The hand stitching part was a bitch though, (gotta get some gloves in the future) Anyway, I noticed two things as I was making it:

1. I was wet leather forming the loop (sheath) for the firesteel and wrapped it around the firesteel and put a weight on it so that it dries in place. It worked fine, the fit was tight, BUT when I took the firesteel out the inside of the leather was BURNT! WTH? I never saw this before, Is this some kind of chemical reaction?? IDK It also corroded the crap out of my firesteel, somehow?, but its not a big deal, it still throws sparks.

2. I dyed the sheath, and then later when I was doing finishing touches and decorating it, I applied this Leather Sheen thing I got at Hobby Lobby. As I was putting it on I noticed that the color started getting a little brighter, as if the sheen was taking some of the dye off?? Is this normal? The dye is water based. Still looks decent but after putting the sheen it got a little brighter..

Anyway, at least I learned a few things. I need to get that stiching wheel eventually cause the threads on the sheath are not perfect, but pretty damn close. Next time I will try to get them perfect, I just couldnt justify paying $20 for a little bitty tool, especially since I just spent $40 on toher tools. Oh, and I need to get gloves, dont think I'll be getting a heavy duty sawing machine any time soon, so... I might put some pics up later..:o
 
Its funny how some of us (me included) can't pay $60+ on a sheath but, will burn thru twice that amount in tools with out looking back. I wanted a leather strop but didn't want to pay $15 for one. After 5 weeks and 3 sheaths and a bunch of fails , 4 strops later I am still in the hole money wise, but the experience gained working leather is priceless. Can't wait to see some pics Capt.
 
Sounds like maybe you'll learn to appreciate that when you buy a well made sheath, you're not just paying for a piece of leather......you're also paying for some experience, knowledge, and talent it takes to make a nice one.
 
I do appreciate that already, but not 5 times the price of the knife, especially when I ask for a simple design. If I actually had a sewing machine I'd be making sheaths for it around $40 -$60, not $150, it doesnt take that damn long.. it took me maybe an hour all together, not counting the mutliple times I had to go to Hobby Lobby, and if I had a heavy duty sewing machine and the little stitching tool, it would have taken me less that that.
 
CaptainPicardX said:
I do appreciate that already, but not 5 times the price of the knife, especially when I ask for a simple design. If I actually had a sewing machine I'd be making sheaths for it around $40 -$60, not $150, it doesnt take that damn long.. it took me maybe an hour all together, not counting the mutliple times I had to go to Hobby Lobby, and if I had a heavy duty sewing machine and the little stitching tool, it would have taken me less that that.
Click to expand...

Well, Cap, I was going to remain silent, but your last post got my attention.

My sheaths are all in the price range you find excessive, yet I manage to deliver between 500 and 600 custom sheaths a year out of a VERY well equipped one man shop. I too, can make a sheath in a very short time, but it stands up to prices from $150 and up,,,,way up.

I'd be very interested in seeing photos of the sheath you completed.

Read Rayban's post #3 again and take it to heart, because I'm not sure you really understand what all goes into a really nice sheath.;)

By the way, welcome to this forum. I hope you drop back in often

Paul
 
sheathmaker said:
Well, Cap, I was going to remain silent, but your last post got my attention.

My sheaths are all in the price range you find excessive, yet I manage to deliver between 500 and 600 custom sheaths a year out of a VERY well equipped one man shop. I too, can make a sheath in a very short time, but it stands up to prices from $150 and up,,,,way up.

I'd be very interested in seeing photos of the sheath you completed.

Read Rayban's post #3 again and take it to heart, because I'm not sure you really understand what all goes into a really nice sheath.;)

By the way, welcome to this forum. I hope you drop back in often

Paul
Click to expand...

:thumbup: Very well said.
 
I just wet molded a couple of Sebenzas in their calf skin sheaths and I can see why a sheath would go into the 150 range and more. With costs of different leathers, the work into dying and drying, tooling, molding etc... seems like a quality sheath has a lot of man hours and costs behind it to me.
 
I guess it comes down to how much you value your work, there are very few proffesions that IMO deserve 150/hr, and also what you consider a good sheath. I just wanted something with the design I wanted it doesn't have to look pretty, ( snap loop and a fire steel holder) and I would think if you have all the heavy duty machinery, then should you be cheaper than the hand made guy? like I said it depends how much you value your work. I get paid, $16/hr to do everything from timing chains to computer diagnostics on cars, yet my friend who is an oil change boy, get $14/hr. and every time I bitch about it, he rips my head off like its none of by business, and that his job is harder,... which is not even remotely the case.
 
Until you have created a successful small business from which you turn out professional looking sheaths and pay yourself a living wage based upon that work, I don't think you have any basis to criticize what others are charging. You would also be much more likely to get some helpful responses if you were not bad mouthing practitioners of a craft (some of which are members of this forum) that takes years of dedication to learn and perform well. I may only be an amateur leather bender myself, but having spent hours upon hours holding onto an awl and pair of needles and experiencing numerous failed projects, I can fully appreciate the dedication and skill it takes to do it full time.

Some of your assumptions also seem to be a bit off: that all professional leather craftsman use a sewing machine, that it only takes someone an hour to turn out a professional looking sheath and that it takes any less work to make a sheath for a cheap knife than it does an expensive knife.

That said, on to addressing your questions:

1. The leather is not "burnt". The corrosion you see on the fire steel is also deposited on the leather, leaving the black color you see on your sheath. When wet forming leather, any metal that I plan to leave in the wet leather until it dries will be covered. You could also substitute the fire steel for a piece of dowel of equal diameter.

2. Maybe those with more experience will chime in, but I have never had good experiences with water based leather dye. I tried it a few times and had similar results to yours. After that I decided to go back to alcohol based dye.

You don't need gloves either, just time to build up some healthy calluses.:)

Good luck on your future leather craft projects.
 
I see leather craft work the same as I see electrical work. Btw, I am a longtime licensed electrician. When someone hires you (or buys your product), they are also paying for your investment of tools as well as your education/experience you have attained. In my trade, anyone can pull a wire or terminate a circuit. But doing it properly is another thing. So too is the making of leather items. It takes knowledge, experience, proper tools, and a costly product to fabricate what ends up being a beautiful, useful item.

Not trying to butt in, but this subject hit close to home as I hear constant 'oh I can do that.....so why does it cost so much' type comments often.

Btw, I too am beginning the steps to learning leather craftmanship myself. I have done small utilitarian items in the past, all of which worked fine, but I now want to create a couple of knife sheaths. One for my Kabar 1276 and the other for my larger Condor Barong Machete. Both of which must turn out so I would not be ashamed to show off....lol
 
CaptainPicardX said:
I guess it comes down to how much you value your work, there are very few proffesions that IMO deserve 150/hr, and also what you consider a good sheath. I just wanted something with the design I wanted it doesn't have to look pretty, ( snap loop and a fire steel holder) and I would think if you have all the heavy duty machinery, then should you be cheaper than the hand made guy? like I said it depends how much you value your work. I get paid, $16/hr to do everything from timing chains to computer diagnostics on cars, yet my friend who is an oil change boy, get $14/hr. and every time I bitch about it, he rips my head off like its none of by business, and that his job is harder,... which is not even remotely the case.
Click to expand...

150.00 an hour?? No, it takes much longer than that to construct a sheath, even a purely simple pouch. You seem to think that we get our supplies for free as well and have no bills to pay.

I dont know who quoted you 150.00 for a standard sheath with a fire steel loop, but you are very wrong in assuming that everyone who makes sheaths charges that.

A stitching machine is a time saver yes, but the huge cost, high maintenance, thread and down time are not easy to recoup.

The Busse knives you've been looking at lately are in that same category, price. Why would you spend 300.00 for a knife when you can simply spend 10? The answer, because you want something more than a plastic handle and stick tang.

If you dont mind what the sheath looks like, form always follows function in my shop as well (but I do both every time) then please do make your own, but, if your asking for advice from those of us who make a living off our craft PLEASE show some respect.

I'm not swimming in money, bills are juggled, my truck has been broke down over a year, and the house needs work. Its really offensive to read that I am some elitist who makes 150.00 sheaths by the hour. Oh, the things I could do with 150 an hour! Have a working truck for one! :p
 
Hoowee leatherman, checked out your site and some of your sheaths. Man o man, that's some nice work. Outstanding!
 
glyde said:
Hoowee leatherman, checked out your site and some of your sheaths. Man o man, that's some nice work. Outstanding!
Click to expand...

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it. :)

I'm glad you were able to navigate the site, we've gotten a few that say they cant find the right button. Its kind of small. :o
 
To add to the auto shop analogy. The overhead is incredible at one of those, my bro in law used to work for one.

Electricity, Tools and maintenance of said tools, equipment and the cost of maintaining those, parts (the cost of parts isnt the highest expense surprisingly) The sheer number of machines required, including those hydraulic rams to lift the cars, require constant maintenance.

17 dollars an hour plus all this, plus the things you take for granted like parts washer fluid deliveries, rag services, uniform services, utilities, security (both manned and electronic) and the costs go on and on. Its a wonder the owners make anything at all especially seeing the waste some of the mechanics cause from user error or just plain wasteful actions.
 
I think everybody said what I was going to, but I think you really dont get it. But I would also like to see some pictures of your sheath. Its easy to slam us, and if you were quoted 150.00 for a mora sheath then you should have asked a few more leatherworkers. But I saw another ask you for pics, so now is the second request for them.
 
First off I'm not trying to be disrespectful to anyone, not trying to get banned in the first week. I did not know you guys do that stuff as a full time job, just doesn't seem viable to me, especially in this economy, but if thats what you do for a living, than off course I can see how it would be hard to pay the bills with that, and why you charge the prices you charge. I never understood why some of the crazy knife makers charge $3000 for a knife that has some "giraffe" bone or something, it makes no difference to me, giraffe or not. But as a full time job, off course I can understand the prices...

2. Thanks to Alan G. for the advice

3. As far as Leatherman and your auto shop overhead, I have no idea where your brother worked but our shop has almost nothing similar with that. We have 3 lifts which have been installed about 15 years ago and we do nothing but put hydraulic fluid in them every 2-3 years. One of our lifts just broke and we had to put a $300 support bar, which I helped install, so its not like the boss man hired anyone( hes too cheap) 15 years with no repairs is pretty good.

Our brake machine as good as it is, broke about 2 years ago after about 28 years of service (cant get better than that). I use a $800 scan tool which hasn't been updated with new software since I started working here. We have no security manned or cameras, and all 99% of my tools I bought, I even had to finance it. So why in the hell is the oil change boy getting $14 when all he has is a $30 tool set from Harbor Freight?

Anyway not trying to be disrespectful.

Oh and as far as the Busse knifeI ordered, I payed $400 because I have not seen any other knife cut thru car doors, chop bricks, .... and not have serious damage. I will not be chopping bricks or stuff like that, but I will definitely do some test on wood, and whatever else I get my hands on. ( coke cans, etc...) what I consider light-medium testing, and if it chips, breaks a tip of or god forbid snaps, you best believe I will first warranty it, then sell it immediately. This is why I bought a Busse, from all the Busse worshipers out there, it seems that these knives can take a beating and come out with only light damage if any, if they cannot, than You are right why in the hell would anyone spend $400 on one? You can beat Kabar in wood all day long but you cant chop car doors, chain links,... with it, not to mention they will most likely not warranty it.

I bought a Busse cause:
1. I want a above average performance out of a knife

2. Not just Lifetime warranty, but Lifetime warranty with outstanding customer service with it. If at any point you do not receive this that I think you should have every right to bitch about it,? dont you? isnt that one of the selling points of Busse?

Anyway..I'm done, no disrespect meant..
 
Here is the sheath I made in under an hour. Not the prettiest out there but keep in mind I had almost no leather working tools, have no idea on what dyes go with what, not even a single leather working book, just used my skills as a mechanic, and some logic, not to mention that I used a cordless drill to drill the holes... be gentle on me..

I dont know how to post pic here so I'm trying this

http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/D...thersheath003_zpsd63f7991.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
 
CaptainPicardX said:
Here is the sheath I made in under an hour. Not the prettiest out there but keep in mind I had almost no leather working tools, have no idea on what dyes go with what, not even a single leather working book, just used my skills as a mechanic, and some logic, not to mention that I used a cordless drill to drill the holes... be gentle on me..

I dont know how to post pic here so I'm trying this

http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/D...thersheath003_zpsd63f7991.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
Click to expand...

Here the photos of the sheath.....

leathersheath003_zpsd63f7991.jpg


leathersheath002_zps960f4f87.jpg


leathersheath001_zps00ed917a.jpg
 
Cap, you did a pretty nice job considering the lack of tools and no previous experience. You are right about it not being the prettiest, but I bet it will get you there and back, and that's the main point, right? A big pat on the back for giving it a try and winning.

But you still have a bit to learn about life and at your age (27/29) you still have a lot of time. Use it wisely.

The oil change boy's $14/hr. should have little meaning to you and definitely not be a cause for your concern. You concern should be focused on how you can do an even better job with a positive attitude, I almost guarantee the rewards will come. I'm 80 yrs. old and I have seen it countless times. Just be patient and do the very best you can every day and celebrate your co-worker's good fortune instead of being upset by it. Your time WILL come.

Check in here often and enjoy with us.

By the way, the little photo below is just one of my sheaths at random. The sheath at about $300 is relatively inexpensive compared to the $4500 knife it houses.;)

Paul
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top