Leather strop question

Svashtar

Svashtar

Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
4,793
For you sharpening experts out there, I have a question that I guess I should know but don't: I have an old leather strop, like the ones you used to see at the barber shop. About 18" long and 2.5" wide, it is dark brown very smooth on top, and rough unfinished leather on the underside. There is a leather/fabric bottle shaped handle on the end of it. Under the strop is a second liner, shaped just the same, also with a handle. This liner appears to be made of white canvas. The top of the strop is a brass piece with a screw down thumb nut, that holds the 2 pieces together, and has a clip so the top of the strop can be secured.

My questions: why this canvas second piece on the underside? Is it for support only? Is it ever used for sharpening? Do I ever use the rough bottom side of the strop, or always the top smooth side?

I have never used any kind of rouge polishing compound on the strop. In fact, I'm embarrased to say that I didn't know you were supposed to. I have an 8" cloth wheel with 4 kinds of rouge that I use for sharpening up some woodworking tools, but only have used the strop for final touch up of already very sharp tools. (I specifically bought it for use with a straight razor.)

From what you guys have said, it seems as if I could use my rouge sticks with the strop. (?) But then how do you clean the leather when you change rouge types/grits?

I bought some "strop dressing" years ago that I treat the strop with a few times a year to keep it supple, so it's in good shape.

Any info you can give me on the correct use of this strop would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Svashtar
 
not familiar at all with the Barber style strops...
I'm sure the pro's here will be able to assist.
With regards to cleaning/switching compound, I made 2 of my own double sided, wood-handled stops out of an old Levi's leather belt.
On one I rubbed black emery compound and white rouge, on the other I left one side untreated and therside impregnated w/ red rouge.
So far, I've just needed to scuff the emery impreg. strop w/ a brass brush to raise the nap and apply more black emery. If I didn't have another stropping side, I'd just add a different compound. Brass brush does a good cleaning and raises the knap well.
Svashtar, if you've never tried/used a wood handled strop before, you gotta try it. You'll finish w/ such a nice edge, you'll be grinnin' ear to ear. :D
 
Originally posted by Svashtar

1- My questions: why this canvas second piece on the underside? Is it for support only? Is it ever used for sharpening? Do I ever use the rough bottom side of the strop, or always the top smooth side?

2- From what you guys have said, it seems as if I could use my rouge sticks with the strop. (?)

3- But then how do you clean the leather when you change rouge types/grits?

4- I bought some "strop dressing" years ago that I treat the strop with a few times a year to keep it supple, so it's in good shape.

Any info you can give me on the correct use of this strop would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Svashtar
Click to expand...

1- You can use one of the coarser compounds on the canvas to rough strop with.

2- Yes. Depends on what you have, the green chromium oxide would work well with the smooth side of the strop.

3- You don't change rouges on a strop. You have a strop for each grit of rouge or compound.

4- Great!!!!
Hope this helps.:D
 
Originally posted by Yvsa

2- Yes. Depends on what you have, the green chromium oxide would work well with the smooth side of the strop.
Click to expand...

Yvsa,

I have a handled strop I got from Knifecenter. One side definately is more abrasive and it is green colored. You figure that's the chromium oxide you are talking about? So you can buy it and apply it yourself??
 
Originally posted by hollowdweller
Yvsa,

I have a handled strop I got from Knifecenter. One side definately is more abrasive and it is green colored. You figure that's the chromium oxide you are talking about? So you can buy it and apply it yourself??
Click to expand...

HD since I don't know how abrasive your green material is I really don't know.
Does the other side have anything on it?
And yes, you can buy it and put it on yourself. I have two flat strops, one with the brown "tripoli" and the other with the red "jeweler's rouge," need to make another one for my green or chrome oxide.
Chrome Oxide is about 10,000 grit methinks.:D
 
Originally posted by WarrenR
hollowdweller, got this info from Dan (Pen)...

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=32984&category=1,43072&ccurrency=2&SID=

they've got lots of sharpening goodies...;)
Click to expand...

Yep, that's the stuff I saw. About a $1 an ounce. Woodcraft has a 20 oz. bar for $21, which makes it a bit easier to apply to a buffing wheel.

Yvsa, thanks for the info. I will use the green chromium oxide on the finished side of the strop, and a coarser compound on the canvas, or maybe even will use the unfinished back of the strop.

My first plan (I am going to use my convex bladed Blackjack Rheinhart Kukri for my trial run) is to use the DMT round tapered sharpeners designed for serrated edges. My theory is that since they start out fat and taper down that by keeping the blade edge up and the tapered edge of the sharpener down, that I should pretty much keep the convex edge intact while sharpening it.

Then I'll try running it on the cloth wheel (lengthwise as Pendentive suggested), and then try and finish it up on the strop if necessary.

I also have the rubber backed sculpting sandpaper from 600 grit up to about 4000 grit, if I need it. Between all that and everyones good advice I'll get the hang of it eventually.

BTW, as far as the old finished barber strops are concerned, I think they really were designed just for the end finishing of straight razors and other very sharp tools. For this purpose, a slightly rougher wood backed leather strop would probably work better. It would certainly hold compound more effectively. In any case, thanks for all the info.

Regards,

Svashtar
 
Plain leather is a finer surface than leather with compound. The compound is added to help it cut faster.

The canvas is on the backside to clean the blade. One swipe on the back, and then a few on the leather side brings it back up to razor sharp.

There is an important lesson to be learned here regarding stropping angle. When the ole barbers stropped, they didn't hold it tight, but "almost tight". Then they would run the razor back and forth along the strop - holding it flat to the surface of the strop. Because the strop was slightly curved (and because leather is a "giving" surface) a slight convex edge was produced which not only lasted longer and made cutting easier, but was also easier to maintain.

So wherein lies the lesson? When you strop, don't strop at the same angle you grind on the benchstone. You'll need a higher angle, or as a trade-off, greater pressure. You want to mimic the curvature produced by holding a handheld strop.

You don't think they could have mounted a strop to a board if it was meant to be that way? ;)

It takes practice with the wood backed strop to get to know the right angle. I try to feel the blade as I push it along to see if I can sense it "catching" on the strop. I then strop until I don't feel those catches anymore. Hard to explain, easy to demonstrate.

Gosh...maybe we could put together a big sharpening workshop at the up and coming Midwest Khonvention...there's a thought. Everybody bring their best ideas/tools/etc.

The reason I advocate stropping lengthwise is that sharpness is all about keeping the edge in a straight line. Hard to do that on a big khukuri when you're only working on a 1"-2" section of it, even worse if you're working perpendicular to the edge. Try to maximize how much the strop is touching the final bevel and you'll get quicker and better results.


So, to answer your first question, I wouldn't bother with any compound/rouge on the ole strop. Maybe on the backside, but leave the already conditioned side alone. It's got years of experience in it already. When you're done using the side with compound on it, go to the plain side to bring it up to scary sharp. Takes patience, and a careful touch, but do it a few times and you'll have it down.

Don't mix compound on the same strop or buffing wheel. Basically, you reduce it to the lowest grit and some compounds like Med.Grey are torture to try to get out of a buffing wheel.

Best of luck!
 
Dan offered
Gosh...maybe we could put together a big sharpening workshop at the up and coming Midwest Khonvention...there's a thought. Everybody bring their best ideas/tools/etc.
Click to expand...

Dan,

You could pay your way for the Khonvention (and then some) if you offered your sharpening services there! You could also lead two seminars...one for those doing their own reprofiling/sharpening, and one for those like me...seeking simply to maintain convex edges by others!

I'm pretty good at organizing meetings/doing slide presentations and such and would be glad to help in that end of it if it would help...you have my email address!
 
Ray - thanks for the suggestions and offer of help.

Maybe you and Ferrous Wheel should get this thing going? I'm sorry to be such a pain, but if I'm going to be there, it has to be in the springtime. I'm going to Blade already and can't afford much else in terms of traveling.


That would be great to have 2 seminars there. But, let's make it FREE! Bring your khuks, sharpened for free! I'll bring the necessary equipment and let anybody who wants to, take a stab at it themselves. Whaddya think?
 
Dan, et. al.:

Thanks for the great advice and tips. I HAVE been using different grits of buffing compound on the same wheel, just because it's a pain to switch wheels. I have been trying to clean off the old compound with an old screwdriver or flat bar, but you are right, the heavy stuff is a bear to remove. I guess I need to get separate wheels for each compound.

With regards to the hand held barber strop, that is more great info than I have recieved since I bought it, and I appreciate it. The finished edge is so fine that I had decided not to use any compound on it, but I will probably use red rouge on the rougher backside.

I found some 2" X 1.5" leather sleeves that will fit on that size sanding drum and that can be used in a drill press. I also found a leather power strop disk 3/4" wide by about 3.5" diameter (also sold by woodcraft, although I bought it somewhere else) that I plan to either use in the drill press, or in a drill horizontally. It is supposed to be run at about 600 rpm, and I plan on using either just the green chromium oxide or the yellowstone compound with those. However, I still want to master the old barber strop. I just need to try and get most of a large blade lengthwise on it, which could be tough.

Last year I had a choice between a Delta 1" X 42" belt / disc sander, or a 4" X 36 Belt / disc sander. I went with the 4 X 36 because I do a lot of wood working, but I see they make both leather and felt belts for the 1 X 42! That would certainly make things a hell of a lot easier.

Thanks again for the tips on using the old strop and getting these blades up to speed, and I will let you know how it goes.

Regards,

Svashtar
 
Originally posted by Svashtar
I went with the 4 X 36 because I do a lot of wood working, but I see they make both leather and felt belts for the 1 X 42! That would certainly make things a hell of a lot easier.

Regards,

Svashtar
Click to expand...

Svashtar I sometimes cut belts in two down the center for my Grizz 2"X 72". Effectively makes a 1" wide belt that is very useful for getting inside the curve on a khuk. Haven't had any trouble doing it yet. I bet you could run the 1" wide belts on your 4" belt sander.:D
 
Originally posted by Yvsa
Svashtar I sometimes cut belts in two down the center for my Grizz 2"X 72". Effectively makes a 1" wide belt that is very useful for getting inside the curve on a khuk. Haven't had any trouble doing it yet. I bet you could run the 1" wide belts on your 4" belt sander.:D
Click to expand...

Yvsa, that's a great idea, but unlike the 1x30 and 1X42 belt sanders, the 4X36 has a bed that lies under the paper as in a standard belt sander, so the sandpaper is never unsupported. I don't know if I could sharpen a blade as easily with the hard steel backing to the paper, but it's a thought.

Regards,

Svashtar
 
If you use a leather belt to power-strop, you'll want to do it against a platen, not in the slack area.

When I write of running the strop lengthwise (parallel to the blade) I don't mean that you turn the strop parallel to the blade (hope I wasn't misleading). What I mean is that you still hold the strop sort of perpendicular to the edge, but the stropping motion itself is parallel to the edge. Make sense? Like you're peeling a giant carrot...:D I just rotate the strop as much as I can so that I make the greatest amount of contact while stropping, but there's no way I'd be able to do it with the strop parallel to the blade.

I think I just overran the quota of how many times you can use the word "strop" in a paragraph...:o :rolleyes: :footinmou
 
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