Leatherman surge, how do the clips hold up? Can I put on a seatbelt cutter?

[yocan]

So my multitool requirements 1. knife that I can open without opening the tool (to save my stabby knife from cutting paper)2. relatively smooth exterior to minimize clothing destruction (no sliders) 3. replaceable wire cutter blades (my sogs looking a little chewed up) 4. pocket clip so I can get it out use the knife to open a box and put it away one handed, ideally orientated so I don't need to be flipping it around to use the knife, so clip opposite side of the knife blade is ideal.

I think that puts me into a leatherman surge.

How does the pocket clip hold up? Is there a more durable one available somewhere or just buy 3 off the bat?

Now can I put a seat belt cutter on the surge somehow? I'm aware it will kill my warranty. Ideally it would be on the same handle as the blade so I can flip it too without reorientating the tool. Ideally not on the back of a blade but a standalone hoook, I know thats less efficient but if I'm cutting a seatbelt or clothes off someone hurt I'd rather have a minimal chance of stabbing myself or them while doing it.

In a pinch a hook that works with the saw attachment slot would be fine I suppose, but I'd like to do better if I can. I really liked the benchmade seatbelt cutters but don't want to have to carry one.

 

[znapschatz]

There is a pocket clip option for the Surge, but the tool's bulk is excessive for pocket carry, or so I concluded after a trial period. It rides much better in a belt sheath, although even then the weight is definitely felt.
The Surge is a great multi-tool, but I don't think it's a good fit for your emergency requirements. I believe you would be better served by dedicated tools for the purposes you described. An EMT could better advise you on those.

 

[Scott321]

I'm assuming the seat-belt cutter is a "what if" scenario rather than something you see everyday in your line of work. Is that correct? If so, a decent serrated blade with a rounded tip should work fine. The Surge has this, but I might prefer a decent scissors, a safety style gut hook, or even a serrated blade like the one on the SAK RescueTool.

Some other things to consider... I have an old SOG Paratool. It's relatively light and slim for the tools it offers, and because the tools are on the inside, there are minimal hot spots when using one tool or the other. When moving the tools to be accessible on the outside, especially designed for one hand opening, there are many more "nibs" or edges which significantly reduce the ergonomics of the tool. Not too bad when using it in a pinch, but noticeable if you actually use the multi tool everyday.

I purchased a LM Charge TTi when they were on sale at REI. I like it, but it is pretty darn bulky for EDC, particularly pocket carry. I even find it pretty darn bulky to actually use any of the tools on it. That sucker is 8.9 oz. My SOG Paratool is 6.2 oz (according to Knifecenter.com). The Surge is a whopping 12.5 oz. and bigger than the Charge. That's 1 oz less than carrying three Spyderco Militaries!... and that's before you factor in your EDC knife and other things like phone, keys, flashlight, etc.

Personally, I have been experimenting with different MT's and am still trying different MT+Knife combos. However, I usually keep a separate pouch in my Messenger/Work bag with real tools that I tend to need here and there. I use a canvas tool pouch about the size of an energy drink can, and keep that in my bag. Surprisingly it doesn't seem much heavier than some of these bulky multitools, real tools are much more proficient in actual use, and I can put in or take out anything I see fit. These canvas toolbags often come in 3 packs of different sizes and are available at many hardware stores.

 

[Minnesota Man]

I am an experienced LM Surge user and I EDCed it for a year in the sheath. I sent it in for repairs under warranty and picked up a LM Wave to keep me company while waiting for my Surge and a few other Leathermans to come back. As soon as I Carried the Surge when it came back I concluded that the extra weight is not worth it. I also sheath carry a CS Pendelton mini hunter and a surefire lumamax L4. Weight didn't used to bother me until I went without it. The Surge has its place. Maybe a glove box tool or in my case my bug out bag. I suggest you look into the leatherman Raptor. I don't own it (yet) but that's perfect for your needs. I hope this helps.

 

[znapschatz]

...I purchased a LM Charge TTi when they were on sale at REI. I like it, but it is pretty darn bulky for EDC, particularly pocket carry. I even find it pretty darn bulky to actually use any of the tools on it. That sucker is 8.9 oz...

Actually, 8.2 oz. Tolerances vary, but I find it comfortable in pocket for the duration I'm active with it. Otherwise, it goes into a horizontal sheath at 12:30 on the belt, where it all but disappears. I have several times come up with something that need a tool and wishing I had brought my Charge before remembering I actually had it with me.

 

[Scott321]

Actually, 8.2 oz. Tolerances vary, but I find it comfortable in pocket for the duration I'm active with it. Otherwise, it goes into a horizontal sheath at 12:30 on the belt, where it all but disappears. I have several times come up with something that need a tool and wishing I had brought my Charge before remembering I actually had it with me.

Actually 8.9 oz. I'm using my Brecknell Electronic Postal Scale to get that figure. The LM site lists it as 8.89 oz. Maybe you are thinking of the aluminum version? LM lists the Charge Al as 8.3oz.

It's a good tool. I used to carry a 2lb flashlight and walkie talkie on my belt. You can get used to a lot. However, I find that there are other tools that weigh almost half the weight and do the job 90% as good. Nothing wrong with using a bulky and heavy multi tool. However, after a certain point of weight and bulk, I'd rather just carry around a tool bag with real tools... or prioritize the weight to things I prefer to carry. That being said, my current EDC knife weighs 5.6 oz (not including my mini multi-tool and other odds and ends; still experimenting with my setup) and I think that's about the upper limit of what I want to carry on my belt. To each their own though.

 

[znapschatz]

Actually 8.9 oz. I'm using my Brecknell Electronic Postal Scale to get that figure. The LM site lists it as 8.89 oz. Maybe you are thinking of the aluminum version? LM lists the Charge Al as 8.3oz.

It's a good tool. I used to carry a 2lb flashlight and walkie talkie on my belt. You can get used to a lot. However, I find that there are other tools that weigh almost half the weight and do the job 90% as good. Nothing wrong with using a bulky and heavy multi tool. However, after a certain point of weight and bulk, I'd rather just carry around a tool bag with real tools... or prioritize the weight to things I prefer to carry. That being said, my current EDC knife weighs 5.6 oz (not including my mini multi-tool and other odds and ends; still experimenting with my setup) and I think that's about the upper limit of what I want to carry on my belt. To each their own though.

Mine is a TTi, but it seems that something has changed since I got mine in 2008. I looked up the specs in the current Leatherman web page, and you are right about the published weight. But in 2008, the weight spec was 8.2 oz., and that's what the post office scale and my own confirmed. Current spec sheets on the TTi agrees with the 8.9 oz weight, but I did a web search and found this ad from a few years ago (price updated) that specified 8.2 oz:

https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5013-873/Charge-TTi-Multi-Tool

I have sent an inquiry to Leatherman to czech this out, but I think there may have been a redesign that resulted in a weight difference from the earlier version. The current one looks different, but I had thought it strictly cosmetic. Which version do you have?

 

[jackknife]

Do you really need a seat belt cutter?

Contrary to popular myth, any decently sharp pocket knife goes through seat belt webbing with ease. In 1991 I used the sheep foot blade of a Buck stockman to cut the seat belt of someone in an overturned car. It was a surprise to me how easy it was. No serrations needed. The normal blade on any Leatherman will be fine.

 

[Scott321]

Mine is a TTi, but it seems that something has changed since I got mine in 2008. I looked up the specs in the current Leatherman web page, and you are right about the published weight. But in 2008, the weight spec was 8.2 oz., and that's what the post office scale and my own confirmed. Current spec sheets on the TTi agrees with the 8.9 oz weight, but I did a web search and found this ad from a few years ago (price updated) that specified 8.2 oz:

https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5013-873/Charge-TTi-Multi-Tool

I have sent an inquiry to Leatherman to czech this out, but I think there may have been a redesign that resulted in a weight difference from the earlier version. The current one looks different, but I had thought it strictly cosmetic. Which version do you have?

I have the newer one. From the pictures in a thread started by Chako at http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=44753.0, mine looks like the top two (mine does not have a Damascus blade though):

 

[znapschatz]

I have the newer one. From the pictures in a thread started by Chako at http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=44753.0, mine looks like the top two (mine does not have a Damascus blade though):

I sent an email to Leatherman and got this reply:

The Charge TTi scales were updated at the beginning of last year. The image on MEC.com is an old style.

This link will show you the updated Charge TTI scales: http://www.leatherman.com/charge-tti-7.html

The change was specifically cosmetic, internals on the tool were not changed at all. The new scales are bigger I believe.

Best Regards,

Cameron Hansing
Customer Service
Leatherman Tool Group, Inc.



The "bigger scales" might account for the weight difference.

 

[Scott321]

I sent an email to Leatherman and got this reply:

The Charge TTi scales were updated at the beginning of last year. The image on MEC.com is an old style.

This link will show you the updated Charge TTI scales: http://www.leatherman.com/charge-tti-7.html

The change was specifically cosmetic, internals on the tool were not changed at all. The new scales are bigger I believe.

Best Regards,

Cameron Hansing
Customer Service
Leatherman Tool Group, Inc.



The "bigger scales" might account for the weight difference.

I could definitely see the change in scales as being a factor in the weight difference. The shiny silver part shown in the pics feels like steal to me. Maybe it was to reduce scratches on the titanium?

 

[yablanowitz]

I could definitely see the change in scales as being a factor in the weight difference. The shiny silver part shown in the pics feels like steal to me. Maybe it was to reduce scratches on the titanium?

Nope, the entire outer scale is titanium, and the flats scratch more easily than the textured part. The new scales are wider, to help reduce the distance the tool locks project. Compare it to the new Wave, which has an identical tool set (and nearly identical frame for that matter) and you can see the difference.

 

[Scott321]

Nope, the entire outer scale is titanium, and the flats scratch more easily than the textured part. The new scales are wider, to help reduce the distance the tool locks project. Compare it to the new Wave, which has an identical tool set (and nearly identical frame for that matter) and you can see the difference.

Wow, ya I didn't know that. I even popped out a 10x magnifier to look at the edges around the flat section and sure enough it was one big piece. Interesting.

 

[znapschatz]

Something else - Current specs for the Wave put it at 8.5 oz., slightly more than for the earlier model Charge TTi at 8.2 oz. It had been promoted, in part, as a lighter alternative to the New Wave, even though it was only 3/10 oz. less. But the new Charge weighs 7/10 oz. more than the Wave. I can't imagine why they did this. There was nothing wrong with the scales on the earlier model, so why go for a change that makes it heavier? IMHO, it doesn't even look better.

 

[Scott321]

Something else - Current specs for the Wave put it at 8.5 oz., slightly more than for the earlier model Charge TTi at 8.2 oz. It had been promoted, in part, as a lighter alternative to the New Wave, even though it was only 3/10 oz. less. But the new Charge weighs 7/10 oz. more than the Wave. I can't imagine why they did this. There was nothing wrong with the scales on the earlier model, so why go for a change that makes it heavier? IMHO, it doesn't even look better.

I don't know. It would only be conjecture, but I might think it has something to do with legal liability related to inadvertent unlocking? Seems silly to me if it had something to do with that, especially because the blades use a different lock.

I don't mean to make things political, but I wonder if they eventually will stamp a warning on the scales about the dangers of the device like they do on some firearms... that new flat area would work perfectly lol.

 

[bobthebob]

without weighing in on the weight issue I'll say that I have a LM Charge ALX that fits the bill for your needs and I carry it while at work no problem. It's certainly not light when worn in a pocket and I don't EDC it for that reason but it's a very solid tool and the gut hook slices through webbing and whatnot with ease as long as it's kept sharp (rat tail file!). Still - I'd recommend wearing it in a sheath, especially as that allows you to carry all the driver inserts for the ALX.
FWIW the big reason I bought the ALX to replace my old TTi is that the ALX has *2* insert bit holders - this allows me to carry a 3/16" allen driver for set screws and a torx t6 for other custom stuff we have to do. No other multi-tool allows me to have that set up!

Good luck!