Lee Valley stropping leather?

[KarlMaldensNose]

I've been using it for a while now and am fairly happy with the results, however I am still frustrated when rubbing the green CrO bar on it. This particular leather is very hard and (I think) almost glossy. The compound goes on but not evenly; there are actually some spots on the leather that won't take/absorb any compound at all. I heat both the coumpound and leather to get better results, but it is not good enough in my opinion.

I cant help but think there is better leather out there for stropping, or at least for applying the compound, such as the Hand American leather that knifenut uses in his making a strop post/pics. His leather looks softer and more pliable, which would probably make compound application easier.

Can anyone comment on the differences between these two leathers, or even just share their own experiences with Lee Valley leather and compound?

 

[chococrazy]

I've been using it for a while now and am fairly happy with the results, however I am still frustrated when rubbing the green CrO bar on it. This particular leather is very hard and (I think) almost glossy. The compound goes on but not evenly; there are actually some spots on the leather that won't take/absorb any compound at all. I heat both the coumpound and leather to get better results, but it is not good enough in my opinion.

I cant help but think there is better leather out there for stropping, or at least for applying the compound, such as the Hand American leather that knifenut uses in his making a strop post/pics. His leather looks softer and more pliable, which would probably make compound application easier.

Can anyone comment on the differences between these two leathers, or even just share their own experiences with Lee Valley leather and compound?

From the looks of it the Lee Valley leather looks like a glorified belt. It works, but just not as well. Also how much heat are giving to the bar DO NOT LET IT GET TO HEATED OR IT WILL APPLY UNEVEN. When you heat the leather it should be hot to the touch and pliable. What I would do in your case is take off all my current compound (WD-40 and a rag will do this) heat the leather up and take some 180 or 220 grit sandpaper and lightly sand the leather to get rid of the gloss. Then I would reheat the leather take a cheapo knife and lay the blade nearly flat on the leather and strop, and strop hard. Give the knife a good push on the leather and do a stropping motion 5~10 strokes should break the leather in. Then I would reapply compound and see if I get better stropping results.
My stropping setup is currently HA- Rolled Horse butt
HA-Bark tanned Bovine
A cheap leather belt (really stiff I don't recommend it or use it that much.)
My compounds are- HA-Liquid Cro2 (I suggest this over the bar since it's must easier for the leather to absorb)
Hardware Store lvl4 compound (2nd to highest)
Hardware store Lvl5 compound (Highest).
The hardware store is on strips of Horse butt.
I also have a piece of clean Horse butt, and everything else has Cro2 on it.
I start off at lvl4 then lvl5 then horsebutt, then Bovine, then I give it a couple strokes on horse butt to give the knife some grab.

 

[thombrogan]

I use a few drops of heavy mineral oil with stropping compounds on leather. They break right down into easy-to-coat goo in seconds and then most of the oil is absorbed into the leather in minutes and you're good to go.

 

[Jason B.]

Like a stone you want leather with good feedback, the leather should be a medium hardness and if you press hard with your finger it should only give about 1mm.

People say once you put compound on leather the kind of leather does not matter, I believe it does and have been saying it for a long time. The better your products the Better the results, and as you now see it pays to get the good stuff.

Hand american leather gives you everything you want in a quality strop leather and strop compounds. There is also a reason they don't sell compound in bars.

Scrubbe bull leather and diamond spray, a combo that can't be beat!

 

[Alberta Ed]

I have the same LVT set-up -- rub the compound on and heat it slightly with a hair dryer (note: if it is your wife's or SO's, make sure you wipe any gunk off afterwards) until it's soft, then smooth it with a knife back or something similar. I left the other side of the strop plain, no compound, for final finishing.

 

[dc50]

Used an old belt for years, worked fine.
Purchased the same set up as you fellas from LVT the leather is to glossy?
After a month or so,what works for me is, wipe the leather down with WD4 then apply compound. Maybe it will get better with time

 

[tnt-user]

I use a belt and some chromium oxide from Harbour Freight. The belt around my waist right now has the compound on it. It doesn't rub off so I keep on my belt.

 

[chococrazy]

I use a belt and some chromium oxide from Harbour Freight. The belt around my waist right now has the compound on it. It doesn't rub off so I keep on my belt.

That HF compound=course.
The reason knifenut says that HA doesn't sells bars is because of the medium the bar uses. Hardware store compound can contain as much Cro2 as it wants and say it's chromium oxide, but all that rest is just a medium to hold that miniscule amount. Here is a forum about Veritas honing compound it use to be advertised as .5micron now it is advertised as up to .5micron.
http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/honing/28088-consumer-alert-chromium-oxide-bars-not.html Scroll down and read the MSDS. Veritas is considered to be the highed end Cro2 too, imagine what is in the Hardware store compound that is why I use it as the beginning to start the polish.
Now go over to HA do you see any bar? NO. Why?, because a bar isn't pure. Their powder is about as pure as it gets. I personally use the liqued since it's easier to apply, but it still isn't as pure about 99%. Their powder is probably 100%.

Knifenut and me seem to share a lot of ideas about sharpening :thumbup:

 

[tnt-user]

That HF compound=course.
The reason knifenut says that HA doesn't sells bars is because of the medium the bar uses. Hardware store compound can contain as much Cro2 as it wants and say it's chromium oxide, but all that rest is just a medium to hold that miniscule amount. Here is a forum about Veritas honing compound it use to be advertised as .5micron now it is advertised as up to .5micron.
http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/honing/28088-consumer-alert-chromium-oxide-bars-not.html Scroll down and read the MSDS. Veritas is considered to be the highed end Cro2 too, imagine what is in the Hardware store compound that is why I use it as the beginning to start the polish.
Now go over to HA do you see any bar? NO. Why?, because a bar isn't pure. Their powder is about as pure as it gets. I personally use the liqued since it's easier to apply, but it still isn't as pure about 99%. Their powder is probably 100%.

Knifenut and me seem to share a lot of ideas about sharpening :thumbup:

I suspected as such. This was just a filler I ordered a strop and compound a few days ago and was too impatient to wait. This compound a kind of cross between waxy and powdery.
Don't know but it sure has made a difference with the edge, So I can't wait to get the better one.

 

[Tinbasher]

I scrape compound into a tin put in one tea spoon of oil/olive oil the melt it on the stove, stays soft for ages.

Richard

 

[stitchawl]

There is no reason to completely coat the leather of a strop. You aren't putting on peanut butter. That said, there is also no reason not to, except wasted compound and wasted money.

All that is needed is just enough to see its presence. If you can see leather under it, that's fine. Remember the spotted nickle matrix that is used for the DMT diamond stones. Plenty of space where there are no diamonds but it still works fine. Compound is even spread out more. Just because you can see some backing material doesn't mean that there isn't cutting compound covering it.

If there are some spots that are thicker or thinner than others (provided we aren't talking about globs of the stuff) that's fine too. When you strop, you are spreading the compound around even further. The old wood carvers that use CrO2 rubbed onto a paint stirring stick say that "if you can still see some green color, you still have enough compound to do the job." A thicker coating isn't going to polish your edges any faster. You are only rubbing the edge against the top of the stuff anyway, and that layer can be micro-mirons thick.

How about .5mic compound?
How thick do you think you need to apply a .5mic compound to make it work? 5mm? 3mm? 1mm? How about the thickness of a hair?
One millimeter is 2,000 times thicker than you need.
(I failed math often so somebody needs to check my work.) But you get the idea. You don't need to spread compounds on the same way you ice a cake.

Stitchawl

 

[dc50]

Thanks Stitch, sometimes we spend so much time, trying to have things perfect,that we lose the fun of the task.

 

[stitchawl]

Thanks Stitch, sometimes we spend so much time, trying to have things perfect,that we lose the fun of the task.

When I put fresh compound on a strop, if it's in bar-form I crayon on a few strokes. If it's liquid I sprinkle a few drops all over. Then I use my thumb to spread the stuff out. Just rub it around a bit to cover most of the leather. Stropping spreads it the rest of the way. And you know what? There is more than enough compound on my thumb alone to do the stropping should I wish to do so! If I used the heel of my hand that would make a dandy strop if I wasn't such a Lilly-pink-fingered wuss. (I get calluses on my finger from turning on the dish washer... )

Stitchawl

 

[dc50]

" (I get calluses on my finger from turning on the dish washer... )

I let the missus turn the dish washer on, it's in her job description

 

[Peregrin]

There is no reason to completely coat the leather of a strop. You aren't putting on peanut butter. That said, there is also no reason not to, except wasted compound and wasted money.

All that is needed is just enough to see its presence. If you can see leather under it, that's fine. Remember the spotted nickle matrix that is used for the DMT diamond stones. Plenty of space where there are no diamonds but it still works fine. Compound is even spread out more. Just because you can see some backing material doesn't mean that there isn't cutting compound covering it.

If there are some spots that are thicker or thinner than others (provided we aren't talking about globs of the stuff) that's fine too. When you strop, you are spreading the compound around even further. The old wood carvers that use CrO2 rubbed onto a paint stirring stick say that "if you can still see some green color, you still have enough compound to do the job." A thicker coating isn't going to polish your edges any faster. You are only rubbing the edge against the top of the stuff anyway, and that layer can be micro-mirons thick.

How about .5mic compound?
How thick do you think you need to apply a .5mic compound to make it work? 5mm? 3mm? 1mm? How about the thickness of a hair?
One millimeter is 2,000 times thicker than you need.
(I failed math often so somebody needs to check my work.) But you get the idea. You don't need to spread compounds on the same way you ice a cake.

Stitchawl

I agree with the above. I used to use mineral oil to make sure i had a uniform layer but have found that it doesn't make my knives sharper. Just crayon some compound on and it'll work fine.

 

[stitchawl]

I agree with the above. I used to use mineral oil to make sure i had a uniform layer but have found that it doesn't make my knives sharper. Just crayon some compound on and it'll work fine.

Anybody who plays a 'Hummingbird' has got to be right! :thumbup:


Stitchawl

 

[KarlMaldensNose]

I started this thread wondering about the effectiveness of LVT leather compared to other kinds. The two characteristics of the LVT leather I wasn't too crazy about was its firmness and its ultra-smooth, almost glossy surface.

I found this post while doing some searches on other stuff. This fella talks about the LVT leather as if it was meant to be used rough side up. To me, the rough side feels very dry and inconsistent. Inconsistent on a small scale, as in varying surface from cm to cm; and inconsistent on a larger scale, as in one piece of leather (rough side, remember) looks and feels completely different in texture quality than another piece of leather from the same package. The smooth side exhibits none of these variances. I know some other kinds of leather give the option of using both sides, but can anyone speak to the use of Lee Valley Tool leather rough side up? Is that actually the norm? I am actually a tool?

 

[stitchawl]

I started this thread wondering about the effectiveness of LVT leather compared to other kinds. The two characteristics of the LVT leather I wasn't too crazy about was its firmness and its ultra-smooth, almost glossy surface.

As a surface for applying compounds, anything smooth, firm, and flat will work equally well. The firmer the substrate, the more accurate the bevel remains during the stropping. The softer the substrate, the more convex the edge becomes. That's why convexers use a mousepad to sharpen with. Soft, roughout leather is a bit firmer than neoprene, but still is going to slightly round off the corners of the bevels. So it's simple... for crisp, sharp bevels use the smooth side of the leather. For convex edges, use the rough side. The rougher the better.

Using MDF board or very firm smooth leather mounted on a flat board, and careful stropping will not round off the bevels. The angles will remain sharp and crisp. Using a hanging strop WILL give slight convexing to those bevels.

The real difference comes in using bare leather. This is where the quality of the leather becomes very important. This is where the 'treatment' of the leather specifically to be used as a strop becomes critical.

A piece of leather that has been correctly 'boned' for stropping will work much better than leather was wasn't treated. This is why high quality razor strops are so expensive. 'Boning' is a time consuming, labor intensive process. Just cutting a strip of veggie tanned leather to the correct size does not make it the ideal strop to use bare, regardless of who is selling it. Selling something to use with compound... well, that's giving the customer what the customer 'thinks' is right because of the word 'leather' in the advertisement.

Note that I said 'ideal strop.' The fact that it's not 'ideal' doesn't mean it's not good. It just means that perhaps the customer might be paying too much for what he is getting. A company that buys veggie tanned leather, cuts it into strop-sized pieces and glues it to a board is giving the customer what the customer thinks is a well made strop, when in fact, it's just a plain piece of leather on a board. You can make 4 of them for the same price with 10 minutes of work and have just as good a final product. Any of these will work well with compound on them. Not all of them will work well without it.

Just remember;
firm and hard for maintaining bevels
Soft and yielding for convexing edges.


Stitchawl

 

[dc50]

"Just remember;
firm and hard for maintaining bevels
Soft and yielding for convexing edges.
"
That's a good one Stitch! Thanks for your input, good stuff

 

[KarlMaldensNose]

"Just remember;
firm and hard for maintaining bevels
Soft and yielding for convexing edges.
"
That's a good one Stitch! Thanks for your input, good stuff

Yeah, he is good, isn't he? I might just have to put him on retainer when my Apex arrives next week. Already I'm holding back on some questions to post so I don't wear out my welcome with him and the other yodas.