Legal belt buckle knife

S

shunshifuw

Joined
Nov 16, 2001
Messages
3
Hello,

I'm hoping you guys can help. A student of mine was arrested for carrying a "belt buckle knife" He was at a county fair, doing no wrong. One of the kids in his group had jumped a fence and ventured into private property, which is what attracted the attention. The cops asked him if he was carrying, and he said, honest guy that he is " I got this belt buckle knife right here" (probably should have worded it differently.

Anyway, the knife is not a typical belt buckle knife and I do not believe it is what the law intended. It is a great utilitarian knife. It is also created by a master engraver. ( I doubt anyone intending to use something as a murder weapon would have his name engraved on the weapon.

PC 12020 qualifies a belt buckle knife as being integral and over 2 1/2 inches. It is neither of these. Integral means necessary to be whole. Both the belt buckle and the knife function separately. The knife if measuring only the sharp part of the blade is under 2", if measuring the entire blade it is 2 15/32.

The knife can be seen at http://www.mooresshoushu.com/Belt_Buckle_Knives/index.shtml

So this kid got hauled off and charged with a felony. Good kid, I have witnesses he didn't cause trouble or give them any guff.

Is this a case of the cops not knowing the law or am I missing something here. Let me know what you guys think and any advice. Kid is scared to death as he's never been in any kind of trouble before.

Thanks
SSW
 
Hi shunshifuw,

I am not familiar with the California statutes and caselaw, but the knife in the link you included looks like an ordinary folding knife attached to a belt buckle. I'm not sure what is so legally problematic about carrying such a knife on a belt buckle as opposed to clipped to the top of a pocket, or completely inside a pocket. Without having read both the statutes and relevant caselaw I can't say this for certain, but my first guess is that by a "belt buckle knife," they mean something like this:

http://www.bowenknife.com/

If I were carrying something like what you pictured (folding knife attached to a belt buckle), my position right from the start would be that it is an ordinary pocketknife, and therefore not a weapon. If I was asked by the police if I was carrying a weapon, I would answer no. If they later found the knife, "That's not a weapon, it is a pocketknife, therefore I told you the truth." If I was asked if I was carrying a knife, I would use the term "pocket knife" or "folding knife" (assuming one or the other is correct) as opposed to "belt buckle knife."

Now that your student is already facing a felony charge, is he charged as a juvenile or adult? If he is a juvenile and can get into a diversion program, he gets away with no record of a conviction. I would not be inclined to plead guilty if a plea bargain is offered, unless a CA attorney were to give me a good reason to think otherwise. I would argue that the knife is not what the law intended to prohibit, but is nothing more than an ordinary folding knife carried in plain sight on the belt instead of partially or totally hidden in a pocket. To the extent that the knife may be disguised to look like part of a belt buckle, is this really any different than carrying a knife all the way in one's pocket, where it would be invisible? As you pointed out, what kind of criminal intent could one possibly have carrying a knife with one's name engraved on it?!

This case certainly reflects the need for significantly more clarity in the way knife laws are written. In many states, I could not tell if a certain knife is legal even after reading the statutes and all the relevant caselaw. Due process requires that the law be sufficiently clear that someone could read it and know whether his intended conduct is legal or not, and vague portions must be interpreted in the light most favorable to the defendant. If the law is the least bit vague, don't hesitate to make a due process challenge, although most courts seem to be inclined to uphold ovbiously vague knife laws.

Good luck.
 
It probably has more to do with carrying it concealed than anything else.
 
As used in this section, a "belt buckle knife" is a knife
which is made an integral part of a belt buckle and consists of a
blade with a length of at least 2 1/2 inches.
Click to expand...
If the blade is under 2.5" then it's legal. The law doesn't say anything about concealment. Tell him to show a copy of the PC to the arresting officer, prosecutor, and/or defense attorney and that should take care of it. He isn't the first person to be arrested for obeying the law. Hopefully he won't have to go to trial, but he should get off if he does.
 
I haven't read the case law and legislative history, but I don't believe that the subject knife is a "belt buckle knife". For the knife in question, the buckle is merely a carry system, not an integral part of the knife. As I understand it, the statute was intended to prohibit knives with blades over 2.5" that are DISGUISED as belt buckles. California law generally disfavors knives that are disguised as other things (e.g. lipstick, tire gauges, pens, canes, etc.).
 
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