Legal in Florida?

B

BauerCTU

Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
2
Hi everyone,

Thanks for letting me be a part of my new favorite forum.
Im one of those "24" fanatics. :) You know, the Jack Bauer wannabes.

Anyway I recently picked up two pieces that Jack uses on the show.

A Microtech Halo III (Automatic OTF) and a Microtech Socom Elite (Automatic).

I was under the impression that I could carry these knives legally concealed since I have a concealed weapons permit, but some friends Ive shown the knives to disagree.
I am a Florida resident and my concealed carry permit is issued by the state of Florida.
I want to make sure Im obiding by the rules. I think it would be ridiculous that I could legally carry a concealed firearm but not a certain kind of knife. Ive researched the net but cannot find any concrete information.

Can someone please either inform me to the best of your knowledge or direct me to some non-confusing links that would simply answer the question, "Can I legally carry my knives?"

Im also considering becoming a police officer. If I were to become one, does that give me any more right to carry these two particular kinds of knives?

Right now though Im just a citizen with a clean record, a concealed weapons permit, and a desire to protect myself, the ones I love and any other innocent law obiding citizens who may find themselves in danger. :)

Thank you for your help guys...
Bauer
 
On second thought have to agree with you .Don't want to get into a pissing match with LEO.
 
Florida knife laws are somewhat vague and ambiguous.

To the best of my knowledge, you can carry an auto knife if you have a concealed weapons permit. My daughter and her husband both do and believe it is legal to do so.

I know a local police officer who carries an auto knife. He stated he obtained it when he first started in law enforcement.

You might contact a dealer who sells auto knives and ask them your question. See if you can contact Julie Hyman at http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/about.cfm. I've talked to her before and she seems real helpful.

Of course, you could always talk to an attorney. (No attorney jokes please.)
 
Akabu,

Thanks for that link to the division of licensing. I know its extremely informative, but can you point me to where it discusses automatic knife rules and blade lengths?

Anyone know of any conclusive documentation online that would prove clearly that florida concealed permit holders can legally carry knives like the Microtech Halo and Socom Elite Auto while in the state of florida?

Most feedback Ive gotten implies that it is perfectly legal, anyone care to disagree? Please have something to base your information on. :)
 
"I am a Florida resident and my concealed carry permit is issued by the state of Florida."

Having a permit to carry a concealed weapon makes it verifiable legal for you to carry not only both of those knives, but virtually any knife conceivable. However keep in mind that you must have the permit on your person if you want to carry the knife.
 
Reffy, continue on with your law classes as you need to learn more.....Many states have a firearms only permit system that does not cover other weapons. There was a recent Fl case involving the sale of switchblades in which the Court of Appeals totally mis interperted the law and stated all switchblades were illegal. Southbeachlaw ( a member here) wrote a long thread on it with several links. I will post what I can. Reffy, if you don't really know than don't advise others as they will be the victims of your mis information not you.
 
I'm a Florida resident with a CWP. I did speak with a lawyer and was informed that as long as you have your CWP on your person it is completely legal. The issue arises that even every day citizens may carry (legal terms) "A Common Pocketknife" but in the courts an automatic is clearly defined as a "Weapon". In Florida a CWP approves you for both firearms and knives, so you're good to go :)

Carry with pride my friend.
 
tom19176 said:
Reffy, continue on with your law classes as you need to learn more.....Many states have a firearms only permit system that does not cover other weapons. There was a recent Fl case involving the sale of switchblades in which the Court of Appeals totally mis interperted the law and stated all switchblades were illegal. Southbeachlaw ( a member here) wrote a long thread on it with several links. I will post what I can. Reffy, if you don't really know than don't advise others as they will be the victims of your mis information not you.
Click to expand...

haha. I am well aware of that. However as smotta pointed out, there is quite unambiguous language that states having a weapons permit covers the carry of virtually all knives. And unfortunately your analysis of the case law has not been applied correctly.
But I appreciate the kind words.
:jerkit:

Edit: That being said....I obviously do not consider myself to be infallible. It's very possible that I will miss case law or mis interpret something or make a bad judgment. If such is the case no one should hesitate to correct me or anyone else for that matter.
But to speaking to me, or anyone else for that matter, in such a rude and derogatory way is unnecessary and shameful.
 
Reffy, I am a retired CAPTAIN from NYC, when you finish law school we can talk. I now work for the second biggest Real Estate firm in NYC managing 14 Retail malls and properties. I have three lawyers answering to me. Keep your "still in school" antics where they belong, among your undergrads in your classes. You are giving advice to people who may take it as fact and they could end up with a criminal record. If you listened in your class, the case law I sited is from the highest Criminal court in Fl, the court of Appeals, and it has defined all switchblades as banned for sale and therefore has redefined them for all purposes of law at this time. This may or may not have an impact on the carring or possession of them as they have been wrongfully included with the ballistic knife ban.
What you learn in class has little to do with the real application of law in the field. It is a guide line only. When you mature and grow up you will look back as these post and cringe to see what you wrote....good luck...study hard, and get into a intern program that allows you to go to court and work with an ADA, then come back and say sorry !!!!
 
After reading the case law, it is clear that at the moment a Officer could make a valid arrest for carrying an auto. Read the law link above section 790.225 , and then the case law link. The Judge in the Appellet Court said the following :" When the statute is read as a whole, the statute
imparts to a person of common intelligence and understanding that possessing a switchblade knife
would be a crime. It is common knowledge that a switchblade operates on a coil spring or other device
that springs the blade out from the handle or casing. Reading the statutory language as a whole, it seems
apparent the Legislature intended to distinguish switchblade knives from folding-type knives that require
manual and deliberate removal of the knife blade from the handle or casing. Using such terms, then, it
seems apparent the Legislature intended to make the possession of switchblade knives, which "propel a
knifelike blade as a projectile by means of a coil spring, elastic material, or compressed gas," illegal while
allowing possession of other types of knives or pocketknives. See § 790.225(1)."

Ask your law professor to walk you through this one. In my many meetings with ADAs to discuss arrest made or to plan how to correctly arrest a known suspect, the fact that he was carring a switchblade with the ruling I listed would be a ground ball for making an arrest. I hope some one in Florida get this re exaimned and changed, but until that time I would be careful about auto knife carry.
 
I still do not see how that would overturn the license to carry statute with regard to knives.. The case law should, at most, only apply to those carrying without a permit. Even that is yet to be established, but in this individual's case he does have a permit. That's what we're saying here. I appreciate your background and regard you as an authority, however I still feel that the case you brought up wouldn't unnecessarily apply to permit carrying individuals. And if it was ever brought up in court (that is, being charged with regards to the case you've brought up) the individual would be given a null sentence in the interest of fairness or be overturned entirely. Its much too unsubstantiated.... Also, the most recent reading of the "ballistic" statute in question has this in it:

"(2) This section shall not apply to:
Any device from which a knifelike blade opens, where such blade remains physically integrated with the device when open"

The case you brought up was in 2001? I think this was probably recently added as a reaction by the legislature to clarify, and effectively makes auto carry still legal. However, I am truly not sure when that language was added. But the license carry statue is fairly clear. The license applies to all weapons except for machine guns.

Also, I'm not going to address your continued personal attacks against my character. You can refer to my last post. I will add that being older and accomplished still doesn't make it okay to talk down to me. I do not believe I treated you with the same disrespect, and if I did I duly and sincerely apologize as it was not intended.

In any case, I would agree - always be careful about auto knife carry even if you have a permit to carry.
 
One must always remember that just becuase you have the law behind you does not mean you won't be harrased by LEO, or for that matter even arrested. However, I stand behind my previous post, as do other members apparently, that provided you have a CWP in the state of Florida it is 100% legal to carry a full auto knife. As Reffy stated, the laws have been ammended since and that issue with the ballistic knnife loop-hole has been corrected.
 
In reviewing the dates I would agree that the 2003 ammendment would seem to have corrected the judge's opinion, but I would be far better to have new case law out there to affirm the change in the law.
Reffy, I made no "attacks on your Character" but I have read several of your other post, and you can not give legal advice to people when it may have a adverse effect on them including the end of their freedom ( jail time). This is the one time I took issue with your statements as it is far better to quote the law or link to it than to offer a opinion as fact. The courts often do not follow the written letter of the law, and soon after any law is passed case law becomes the true test of how laws will be enforced. I have strained myself to be polite while writing my comments to you, so if you feel offened by me then please do not enter criminal law as you will not be a happy person.....sorry if you were truly offended as that was not my intent, but think of how offended some one would be in the back of a police car after being arretsed for something he felt was legal....
 
Oh please. Pray tell, what was your intent when saying "continue on with your law classes as you need to learn more"? Or how about "if you don't really know than don't advise others as they will be the victims of your mis information not you."
Interesting how it turned out that I was correct. Would you then say that you were the one perpetrating mis information? I understand, you did your best, and you made an honest mistake. There is nothing to be ashamed of in doing that. But when you wrongly assumed I was mistaken you did not simply correct me. No. Apparently I needed to go back to class because I was recklessly misinforming people.

Some more other gems which have an, again, fairly unmistakable intent.
"When you mature and grow up you will look back as these post and cringe to see what you wrote....good luck...study hard, and get into a intern program that allows you to go to court and work with an ADA, then come back and say sorry !!!!"
"Keep your "still in school" antics where they belong, among your undergrads in your classes."
"If you listened in your class, the case law..."

You are right, giving advice when one does not know is truly irresponsible. But I go to great pains to ensure that I am accurate in my advice. Even so I may very well be wrong. And as I said, if someone feels that I am incorrect I would obviously rather be corrected than remain incorrect. However, for someone to come in here and self righteously make judgment on me in essentially calling me ignorant and immature well....I do not believe I should be made to stand for it. Never mind apologize for it (as suggested)! Also I do not intend on going into criminal law.

Also, I am not giving out legal advice, as I am not your lawyer and cannot legally give one legal advice. I am simply posting for informational purposes.
 
Jon Gutmacher is generally considered to be one of the top legal authorities on Florida firearm and weapons law. The current edition of his "Florida Firearms Law, Use & Ownership" should be required reading/ownership for anyone who has a CCW in Florida.

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/

Jon is very clear. Auto knives are legal for concealed carry if the owner has a CCW. Remembering, that the permit allows for concealed carry only.......and it must remain concealed, so no showing off for your buddies at the local bar and grill! One other item to remember, auto knives are prohibited on all Indian Reservations, whether you have a permit or not.
 
i am a FLA resident, AND I own an auto knife.
since auto knives are legal here in FLA period, AND ccw holders can carry knives concealed (including auto), then, yes, you can carry your HALO concealed if you're a CCW.

good choice of knife.!
 
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