Legality database

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wibbler

Joined
May 13, 2004
Messages
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Hey everybody! I'm starting to teach myself some stuff about database scripting for web design, and I wanted to come up with a project to try to learn by doing. So, I figured that I would do something that would be useful.

So, I'm going to try setting up a simple database where someone can select the type of knife (folder, DA OTF, balisong, etc), and choose their state, enter if they have any sort of military/police/atf affiliation and it'll go through the database and figure out if it's legal for them to posess the knife.

Now here's where you guys come in. Can you post what state you're in, what types of knives you know to be legal and illegal there? Most states have it posted in their laws, but they're written in lawyer-ese that I really can't understand. I figure, once i get the info, it should be pretty easy to get it set up, and it might be quite the useful resource for collectors. Thanks again!
 
http://www.thehighroad.org/library/blades/knifelaws.html

AFAIK, any LE or active duty military can carry autos. Most states that ban balisongs do so because they fall into the "gravity or inertia" knife description of switchblades. These laws don't differentiate between styles of autos (OTF, DA, side opening, etc), just whether or not they're button or switch activated, springloaded, etc. Go ahead and make up catagories for your project in the interest of self-education though.
 
Hrm, ok, I wasn't sure. I was checking out the PA laws and they had different listings for assisted, tactical, and "ballistic" knives. If anyone can clarify on those some, it'd be appreciated!
 
Trolls can start topics.
You may be legitimate in this, but my suspicions are raised as to why you want to do this, yet you list no email address, and you only have a few posts.
All of the information you want is readily available via each states website. If you are indeed legitimate, you don't need anyone here to list individual knives.

wibbler said:
So, I'm going to try setting up a simple database where someone can select the type of knife (folder, DA OTF, balisong, etc), and choose their state, enter if they have any sort of military/police/atf affiliation and it'll go through the database and figure out if it's legal for them to posess the knife.
Click to expand...

And I'm betting you'll also be harvesting IP numbers from the people who access your 'database', which will also give you an idea of who has knives, and what type. At the very least, you'll be able to catalogue the IP owners interest in types of knives.
Good luck, Sarah. :barf:
 
Now that makes a little more sense. I've added info to my profile, so you can hang up your tinfoil hat now.

Like I said, my intentions are based on the fact that up until I saw Planterz post, I was unable to find a simple explanation about knife laws, per state. Most states do have the information listed, but its listed in their law books online, which without a law degree to help me decode them, are as good as useless (see my statement about wtf a ballistic knife is considered in my previous). I've been wanting to learn php and sql scripting, so I figured this would be a nice way to get introduced to the bladeforums community a little more (i'm still rather new to the knife world, and have pretty much been pulled in thanks to my fascination with balisongs), and serve a nice purpose while I learned to do something new.
Yes, I could harvest IP addresses, but they'd be at least to some point useless. Yeah, I could track it down to the ISP, but good luck going any farther than that. Look at how much trouble the RIAA and the MPAA have had getting the names of users based on IP addresses, from ISP'S. I understand where you were concerned.
Anyways, let me clarify, what I meant by listing individual knives, was to ask what knives people knew for a fact were legal in their state, and whether or not they were legal for authorized versus civillian possession.
Hope that clears it up some.
 
AFAIK, any LE or active duty military can carry autos.
Click to expand...

It depends on the state. It is a common myth that the federal Switchblade Act contains a blanket exemption for law enforcment officers and military. It does not. The Switchblade Act prohibits the interstate transportation of switchblades (and, for the purposes of the Switchblade Act, the definition of switchblade does not include balisongs). It contains an exception to allow law enforcement and military organizations to purchase switchblades for official use. But you have to the the authorized purchasing agent for the agency, the appropriate authority, usually the unit commanding officer, has to to sign the purchase order, and the knives have to be purchased by the agency for agency use (not by you for your personal use). The Act also allows law enforcement and military personel to transport switchblade knives owned by their agency across state lines as part of official activities or business. Again, this has nothing to do with personal property. Finally, even if the Act allows military and law-enforcement agencies to purchase switchblade knives and have them shipped to them across state lines, the Act does not exempt anyone from state laws about owning and carrying switchblade knives.



Most states that ban balisongs do so because they fall into the "gravity or inertia" knife description of switchblades. These laws don't differentiate between styles of autos (OTF, DA, side opening, etc), just whether or not they're button or switch activated, springloaded, etc.
Click to expand...

And now you start to see the complexity of it all. The definiton of words can vary from state-to-state and from law-to-law. Under the Federal Switchblade Act, balisongs are NOT switchblades. But, under US Customs Regulations, balisongs are defined as switchblades. And that's just the beginning.

Most knife laws are part of some criminal code. But criminal law is very complicated. What the text of the law says is just the beginning. What actually is and is not legal depends not only on what the law says but on how prosecutors have applied that law and how courts have decided those cases.
 
Thanks for clearing that up Gollnick (or at least, trying to make as much sense as possible of the mess of mumbo-jumbo that is knife laws). I'd just assumed that since most states require Military ID or LE department letterhead, that they were allowed to carry autos. I'd always wondered why the exemption was never extended to emergency services (EMTs, firemen, etc).
 
Now here's another question then... going by the listing you showed me. If states have a law on blade length, then how does that apply to swords? Do states have laws affecting swords differently than knives? Most states have a rennaisance faire, and most vend swords. It'd be interesting to see if they fall under different laws. Also, are exceptions made for antiquities? For instance, a 10 inch long blade from the 1800's, kept as a collectors piece.

Maybe this database won't be as simple as I'd thought, lol.... stupid laws up to interpretation.
 
The site I posted is for carry laws. Not ownership. The differences can be tricky, and vary from state to state. In many states you can own autos and balisongs by virtue of the fact that there is no law that doesn't say you can't. I don't know of any state that says you can't own a sword or BFK (big f***ing knife). Carrying (concealed or otherwise) is a different matter.

From what I've seen of individual state laws, often "swords", "Bowie Knives", etc will be specifically listed as illegal for carry. Otherwise, just assume a sword is a "fixed blade" and subject to the lengths and carry restrictions for a given state. "Carry" probably doesn't include walking to-and-from your car and a legitimate place where you'd have a sword (SCA, martial arts practice, knife store). I don't know what purpose you'd have walking to Circle K or around Wal-Mart, but even if it's legal to do, expect hassle. It might be perfectly legal to carry a sword, but police might still hassle you (creating a disturbance, distubring the peace, whatever they can think up).

Another good site for carry laws (not just knives): www.packing.org
 
Hello Wibbler. I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I think your project is well intentioned but as you noted the laws are quite incomprehensible. As Gollnick pointed out a lot of the laws vary from state to state with each state using its own statutory language which is similar to, if not stolen from, some other state's law. The similarities will be used when it serves the prosecutor's/court's interest, just as the differences will be used if that should serve the court's/prosecutor's interest. You said "Most states do have the information listed, but its listed in their law books online, which without a law degree to help me decode them, are as good as useless". Such faith in a law degree. The law is only "clear" when the court says what it means and that is only good till the next case. Like when the Florida Supreme Court upheld a person's life sentence because he was carrying a lockback during a felony. :rolleyes: (But don't feel too badly it was apparently his 18th or 19th burglary conviction.) There was a thread recently about a guy who was arrested and might be prosecuted for carrying a Kershaw assisted opener which he bought, IIRC, at Wally's world. We'll have to wait and see what happens with that and it will probably affect how other states react. Lastly, I don't think most knife owners actually know if their knives are "legal". We buy them at stores and assume they are, or we buy them on the internet according to our understanding of legal. I/We never run down to the police station to get their permission to buy, or, after the purchase, ask their opinion as to legalness.

Anyway you say you are new to knives. A lot of knife owners are gun owners, and those that aren't are still aware of the problems gun owners face with gun grabbers. Gun registration is seen as the first step to gun confiscation ala New York. Most everyone's going to get really upset at the idea of having to register their stuff. So Smega's concern was understandable.

Good luck with your project.
 
Going beyond the state per stated variances, you also have differences in some cities within states. In Philadelphia, they have many laws which are different than the rest of Pennsylvania. New York City has the same thing in relation to New York State. I'm sure there are other cities that are similar.
 
Yeah, my friend who lives in Brooklyn has talked to me before (at great length) about the near complete ban of just about anything gun/knife related.

I also want to apologize if I came across like I had bad intentions on the side, it wasn't what I (pardon the redundancy) intended to do. But, either way, I am considering still taking a whack at doing this database of the laws, but instead of considering it as concrete, doing it more as a suggestion. I'm thinking calls per state to their DOJ might be in order. Maybe some letters too. Then at least I could get something in writing that would hopefully be a little more clear.
 
I live in Ohio. Knife laws here are absurdly vague, but it could be much worse. By statute, in Ohio, it is illegal to carry a knife: (1) that is specifically designed to be a weapon, or (2) that is being carried with the intent to use it as a weapon. Carrying a knife for self-defense is carrying it as a weapon. There is no blade length limit.

If you read court decisions, it just gets scary. I recall one in which the knife was ruled not to be a weapon in part because it did not have a lock. The implication is, of course, that if it had had a lock it would be more likely to be considered a weapon.

But here's the real deal, which I think would apply in any State: If you are a clean cut, law abiding citizen, you'll probably never have a problem carrying a knife. If you look or act like a dirtball, your chances of getting in trouble go way up, IMO. Lastly, if you commit any crime and are arrested carrying a knife, the prosecuter is going to do everything he can to add a charge of carrying a concealed weapon to the other charges.

And all of this is going to vary tremendously based upon the individual outlooks of the LEOs and judges. Good luck with the database.
 
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