Legality of batons

mauiblue

mauiblue

Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
730
If this is not the place for this thread my apologies. I was looking at a few ASP batons for self defense but was wondering if they are legal to use?
 
Its a feloney in California to have one. Can't say about Hawaii. It varies from state to state.
 
no good in hawaii either. would fall under billy/blackjack in the deadly weapons section. im not aware of any state that allows these for non sworn/security personnel.
 
Thanks guys. Your quick response kept me from making a costly mistake.

It seems like when it comes down to it, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't kind of scenerio. If you use *any* type of weapon to defend yourself if you believe you are in physical or mortal danger you could be charged with a felony if you can't prove self-defense. And if you don't carry a weapon to defend yourself, you could be beaten senseless or worse if you are not able to get away. But the criminals will be criminals and do what they want and not care about any legal consequences. IT'S NOT FAIR!:mad:.

Oh, well. I guess I'll stick to pepper spray...:p. At least that is legal here in Hawaii.
 
true enough. although im not suggesting you carry an illegal item, it has always been my opinion that it is better to be alive and in some trouble than dead.
 
If you use *any* type of weapon to defend yourself if you believe you are in physical or mortal danger you could be charged with a felony if you can't prove self-defense.
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Well, yeah... if you can't prove self defense, you probably are the aggressor. Even if you have no weapon.
 
I ended up getting a couple Fox Labs pepper spray bottles for me and my wife. Also found a cool pepper spray dispenser that looks like a kubaton that hangs on your key chain. Even in paradise (Hawaii) there is quite a bit of muggings and physical confrontations and I just don't want to be a statistic.

MORIMOTOM: I know what you mean by your post.

As I mentioned before, "Damned if you do and damned if you don't". Just the other day, one of the President's staffers that was here in Hawaii during the President's visit got mugged in Waikiki. The staffer got a bad beat down but will survive. But he shouldn't have been walking the street during the early morning hours and a bit inebriated. Maybe if he at least had a can of pepper spray he could have get away? Depends on a lot of factors but definitely don't go where you are unfamiliar with. I just would want to have something with me that would enable me to have *a way out* in a bad situation. Having a knife and not knowing how to use it could make thinks worst and escalate things and you would have to be pratically in the bad guy's face to use it. At least pepper spray or even a retractable baton you would have some distance between you and the bad guy.
 
mauiblue said:
I ended up getting a couple Fox Labs pepper spray bottles for me and my wife. Also found a cool pepper spray dispenser that looks like a kubaton that hangs on your key chain. Even in paradise (Hawaii) there is quite a bit of muggings and physical confrontations and I just don't want to be a statistic.

MORIMOTOM: I know what you mean by your post.

As I mentioned before, "Damned if you do and damned if you don't". Just the other day, one of the President's staffers that was here in Hawaii during the President's visit got mugged in Waikiki. The staffer got a bad beat down but will survive. But he shouldn't have been walking the street during the early morning hours and a bit inebriated. Maybe if he at least had a can of pepper spray he could have get away? Depends on a lot of factors but definitely don't go where you are unfamiliar with. I just would want to have something with me that would enable me to have *a way out* in a bad situation. Having a knife and not knowing how to use it could make thinks worst and escalate things and you would have to be pratically in the bad guy's face to use it. At least pepper spray or even a retractable baton you would have some distance between you and the bad guy.
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i have alot of family on oahu, mainly windward side. my uncle is retired hpd, and i have ridden along with him many times. hi laws are almost identical to ca laws, unfortunately.

was the staffer near hotel street?;)

anyone carrying anything for sd, spray, knife, stick, gun, etc, should have trained with it. practice drawing and deploying, simulate scenarios, etc. a weapon in the hands of someone not trained will definitely make any situation worse. never pull a weapon unless you are prepared to use it, it shouldnt be used merely as a threat of force. when an attacker escalates, panic sets in, and many people freeze, have their weapon taken away, and it is used against them.

the general rule for the distance an attacker can advance before you can remove a weapon is 21 feet. inside that distance you are usually screwed. we practiced this in the academy, and believe me, no matter how fast you are, an attacker can gain ground so quickly within 21 feet, there is little you can do re: drawing a gun, spray, etc. he will be on top of you in about 1.5 seconds i believe. even if you do get shots off, their forward momentum will propel them into you, if they are armed, you will be injured, guaranteed.

sorry for the off topic info. thought it might be helpful when considering an sd situation.
 
If you are out at night it is not unreasonable to carry a flashlight to see in the dark.;) I have a 4 cell mag light I carry in my vehicle.
 
as long as the flashlight is for 'illumination' not protection, there should not be any issue.
 
Actually if I remember correctly the White House staffer was mugged at the International Marketplace not at the infamaous Hotel Street:D.

I was looking at a book about utilizing pepper spray and that would be it about any formal training. My mindset about being prepared in deploying any type of SD item would be that I would have it ready at a moments notice like when walking to the car or in a public restroom. The one I ordered is the stream type not spray dispersal. I was thinking since I live in Hawaii it is breezy sometimes so the stream type would be better when using it outside (or even indoors for that matter). It would be nice to have some training dvd/videos on pepper spray use or even batons. But other than that, no other self defense classes locally.
 
stream is definitely better, but consider wind direction as well. many a cop has deployed oc then had it blow right back in his face. also consider that statistically 1 in 10 is unaffected. also alchohol and narco limit effectiveness.

by training i simply meant, be prepared. go over scenarios in your head. practice keeping your head on a swivel and try to have an avenue of escape. spray, then get the hell out.

i carry oc with orange dye. no mistaking who the suspect is when he has orange all over his face and clothes. good luck.

mark
 
Yes, keeping your wits about yourself is important, something that I've been doing for a while now. I've been plagued with belligerent and arrogant clientèle at work in recent times and even a couple people actually saying that they wanted to physically confront me. I'm not a young guy and even if I was young I still would not want to have my ass kicked during or after work by someone that is not afraid of the law and its consequences. I kind of remembering on one post a member saying that having a bigger or better weapon than the bad guy is better than not having any at all or something to that effect. I feel that having a SD item that was on the most part legal (pepper spray) I would have a chance to avoid physical confrontation all together. But if that would be not enough, being street savvy and carrying a big stick (baton) would aid in curtailing an attack even though having it may have its consequences. Obviously I am a law abiding citizen and even mentioned to a prosecutor that I would not want to be sitting across from them but I want to live to see another day and enjoy my family so sometimes we have to make some decisions that may not be congruent to our values and compliance to the law. I've heard it time and time again that sometimes the law makes criminals out of good citizens just trying to protect themselves from scumbags and riff raff of the world.

BTW, I remember the other week when PlayStation 3 went one sale, two thugs tried to steal from two customers their newly bought game consoles. Here is an excerpt from CNN.com:

In Sullivan, Indiana, a man was in critical condition after emergency surgery for a stab wound after he and a friend tried to rob two men of consoles they waited 36 hours in line to buy, police said. Andrew Templeton, 20, and David Wiggins, 28, of Sullivan, Indiana, were assaulted by two teens after waiting for 36 hours at a Super Wal-Mart, police said. They were unloading their PlayStation 3s from their car when two teens approached them carrying a chain and a tire iron and demanding their consoles, said Sullivan Police Chief David Story. A fight broke out. Wiggins' nose was broken, and he stabbed one of the attackers, Dylan Moss, 19, police said. Moss was in critical condition after surgery, officials said. Sullivan County Prosecutor Bob Springer said he plans to charge Moss and accomplice Dustin Fagg, 19, with felony robbery.

As I mentioned before, if I am able to stab a guy, that's too close for me! Pepper spray is good, practical, and legal here BUT having a baton would be good also because you would have an attacker at more than arm's length away.
 
If you use *any* type of weapon to defend yourself if you believe you are in physical or mortal danger you could be charged with a felony if you can't prove self-defense
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You would be looking at both weapons charges (if the weapon was illegal), and felony assault, attempted murder, or even murder/ manslaughter if your use of force was inappropriate. Also, you could be looking at a very nasty civil suit as well, regardless of disposition of your criminal case. Also, you should also anticipate being portrayed negatively by certain community activists and the news media.

the general rule for the distance an attacker can advance before you can remove a weapon is 21 feet. inside that distance you are usually screwed. we practiced this in the academy, and believe me, no matter how fast you are, an attacker can gain ground so quickly within 21 feet, there is little you can do re: drawing a gun, spray, etc. he will be on top of you in about 1.5 seconds i believe.
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I recall reading a post on ARFCOM that was written by an LEO. He had done some training were an "assailant" was place 21 feet behind the line, and a human sillouette target was place 21 feet in front of the line. One round in the weapon, and a third party calling "draw". On the draw call, the shooter would draw and fire an "aimed shot", and the "assailant" would run forward, stopping on the shot. I recall that poster mentioning that the "assailant" was about 5 feet behind him when all was said and done.
 
i took a class with the guy who came up with the 21 foot rule. a student had asked him how far a man with a knife had to be for an officer to have a reasonable chance of drawing and firing. he didnt know.

so, he went to work, trying different distances, types of ground, different size suspects. he was able to come up with the 21 foot rule as a general 'dead zone', and it has been upheld in court. if a suspect becomes a threat with a weapon, knife, bat, within that distance, courts have upheld shootings as justifiable force.
 
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