Legitimate bay mistake?

imafritz

imafritz

Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
4,879
Hi guys,

I was trolling today and came upon an auction for a '73 110. I dont think this guy is misrepresenting but dating it solely on the lack of a date stamp or dots. Now looking at the pics It is obvious it isnt a '73 as it has full radiused bolsters, the rivots arent right and the hollow ground is too squared(at least these are my impressions). The wood looks to be macassar, and it is just a 3 liner. I remember some talk about blades coming through and production starting without getting stamped cause the date stamp hadnt arrived. What year was that or was it more than 1 year. Whatayall think?

just posting these pics cause its still live
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this writeup accompanies the knife

This Buck 110 is in amazing condition, the pictures cannot capture the luster of this classic! The Buck Knife Folding Hunter Model 110 was first produced in 1961 and it is the most copied knife in the world! Buck began placing the model numbers on the knife tang in 1973 and in 1974 they began using a dating system to track production allow collectors to date the knives. This knife has the model number but no dots making it 99% certain that it was produced in 1973. These knives are made in the USA, with early production taking place in El Cajon, CA.
 
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Dang, fritz, now I'll have to go to digging through my 110's again. I have one of the newer 110's with no date stamp somewhere. That happened with a bunch of 111's also.
 
Plumberdv said:
Dang, fritz, now I'll have to go to digging through my 110's again. I have one of the newer 110's with no date stamp somewhere. That happened with a bunch of 111's also.
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Yeah Plum, I dont have a stamp on my 111. I gotta start making notes when we talk about odd things like this. I know guys like 110dave and David Martin keep good records, I keep saying I will but never do.
 
Imafritz I have a two dot 112 that you have to look very close to see the dots, this could be what happened on this knife. I believe that the year Buck made several knives without the year stamping was either 2007, or 2008. I had bought two 442' from Buck in 2008, and yes I gave one of them away to a friend. HL
 
Joe's data sheet on the 110's says that the '73 model had only two inlay rivets (and the pivot pin), not three as in the eBay listing, the picture in the '73 catalog shows that also.
 
Here's a small screen shot of the '73 catalog. fritz, did you contact the seller about it?
 

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Look at the swedge and the satin finish, It looks like a 420hc vintage design. If the sheath came with the knife it is too new for 73. I would guess, cause it looks for sure to be ebony, its 93 or 94.

Another thought is that it is older and has been back for spa treatment. That would allow for the full radius and larger protruding rivots, but the blade
remains a mystery cause to me it sure dont look like the typical 440c
grind or texture appearance. The radiused edges are my stoppers though, I think they're factory.


I didnt contact the seller Plum cause I dont think its deliberate and he has some justification to call it a 73 with that tang stamp. I have done it in the past only once when I was sure it wasnt what was advertised and the seller quoted Levines and wasnt at all happy that it could be wrong. I guess I could just drop a polite note and If he aint interested, buyer beware. It is a darn nice knife though even if it isnt a 73. BIN price too high though.
 
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I have one like this also; apparently a handfull got out in 2008 (I think) without a date stamp.
 
imafritz said:
Look at the swedge and the satin finish, It looks like a 420hc vintage design. If the sheath came with the knife it is too new for 73. I would guess, cause it looks for sure to be ebony, its 93 or 94.

Another thought is that it is older and has been back for spa treatment. That would allow for the full radius and larger protruding rivots, but the blade
remains a mystery cause to me it sure dont look like the typical 440c
grind or texture appearance. The radiused edges are my stoppers though, I think they're factory.


I didnt contact the seller Plum cause I dont think its deliberate and he has some justification to call it a 73 with that tang stamp. I have done it in the past only once when I was sure it wasnt what was advertised and the seller quoted Levines and wasnt at all happy that it could be wrong. I guess I could just drop a polite note and If he aint interested, buyer beware. It is a darn nice knife though even if it isnt a 73. BIN price too high though.
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I'd say it isn't deliberate either, but there's no way that's a '73 model 110. He should know that so he doesn't get burned later. He says he's 99% sure so he's not completely convinced I don't think.

I contacted a seller about a 119 a week or so ago that he was wrong about and he was very happy to get the info. he changed his listing right away.
 
imafritz said:
Yeah but what about the wood, does it look like ocheebee to you guys?
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Looks pretty dark, but that could just be the lighting. I don't see where there's anyway around the number of rivets either. Even if it had been given a cleanup at Buck, they wouldn't add large head rivets to replace the small head ones that the '73 came with.:confused:
 
Could be an older handle from the late 80's or early 90's, that had been sent back to Buck for a new blade, and just happened to get one that did not have a year date, when Buck was trying to make thier deadline quota. HL
 
Ok just to cloud the water more, here are 2 more pics. 1st one makes it look like it is grained like ocheebee

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but look how the grain follow toward the liner without breaking pattern which would be inconsistent with a laminate.

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there, clear as mud:p


I will give the seller a friendly hint.



edit: as i look at the other pics Tin Sue, You may very well be right, it could be ocheebee. That would certainly be consistent with with frame design.
 
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I just now received this message from that seller after I sent him the info on what a real '73 was.

"Dear plumberdv,

Info always welcome... I wondered about that, I have another no Dot, and it has three pins, not four and is decidedly square, not shaped...
I will revise, so as not to appear the fool...

- dallas112263 "
 
This is a 73 sheath,see how the rivets are above the knife compartment. On the newer ones the leather goes straight across from rivet to rivet.
 

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That blade looks just like the one on my 111. I purchased several 111s a while back, that were the result of a 'Factory Build-out', around 2008 time frame. In other words, those knives (111s) were built from surplus parts & materials they had in stock (until they were 'built out'). Some of them had the Idaho mark on the tang, the others had no date mark at all. Wouldn't surprise me if the OP's pictured knife came out of something similar. Looks entirely like a recent model to me.

BTW, I asked Buck Knives (via email) about the 111s I bought. Specifically, the seller from whom I bought them (on the 'bay) had listed them as having 'Ironwood' scales. To further complicate things, they came in factory boxes with a model/upc code which was previously used for customized 111s with genuine ironwood scales (& no rivets). With regard to the wood, I was told by Buck it was likely 'stained birch' i.e., the same stuff used on the standard current 110. I'm pretty sure it's a laminate (layered like plywood). You can see the layers in it if you examine the edges of the scales under BRIGHT light (a magnifier helps too). Wouldn't surprise me if the scales on the OP's pictured knife are the same stuff (perhaps more darkly stained).
 
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Funny, He uses a stock form for his auctions, he forgot to change a word. :)

This lighter is a vintage knife and may require cleaning.
 
He replied to my email positively and has changed the write up appropriately. Good seller looks like.:thumbup:



Obsessed with Edges said:
Wouldn't surprise me if the scales on the OP's pictured knife are the same stuff (perhaps more darkly stained).
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Your right obsessed, after Tin Sue and Plum mentioned it, I went back and really check out all the pics and although the 1st one I posted looks dark like macassar ebony, the rest show the grain of the laminated obeechee wood. My mistake-I usually post 1st, think later.:o
 
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As has already been said, "It is NOT a '73 version." I started in Nov 1974; at that time the basic look of the handles was no radius around the brass or wood, two small inlay rivets and the rocker rivet (pin)- since we drilled the wood inlays and brass hanldes at the same time, there were only enough holes in the side to put the two inlay rivets in (so this wouldn't even be a '73 refurbed here).

The wood could be real ebony; I believe we were still using real ebony when we began using the radiused brass handles (not positive). The blade looks as if it has the "gray wheel" edge we used for a few years. The process was; we ground the final edge (for sharpening) on the blade, then blended it in with a gray wheel; we then did the final sharpening step. The finish on the blade looks to be a gray wheel then tycro finish. With the edge, that would put this somewhere in the '80's- early to mid I think

Definately not a '73 or older.

Bill Keys
Director of Manufacturing and Engineering
Buck Knives
 
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