Lesson Learned - How not to carry a Gunting

roshi

roshi

Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
1,501
I'm a new Gunting owner. I don't have a sheath yet so carry has been mostly clipped to a pocket. I usually carry clipped inside a waist band but too much of the Gunting handle sticks up above the clip to make this comfortable.

This morning on the way out to buy some Saturday morning doughnuts for the family, I simply clipped it inside the "watch pocket" om my jeans. It was a perfect fit, the clip fully engaged.

I reached into my pocket for change, pulling it out I felt the tip of the knife penetrate the inside of my pinky near the palm. The motion of inserting my hand in the pocket partially opened the Gunting. Its point easily cut through the watch pocket jean material leaving enough point to enter about a 1/4 inch into my finger.

Lesson Learned - Try out all new carry modes with the drone before going live.
 
Is it a tip up or tip down knife? The watch pocket is a pretty small pocket. How can the blade open enough to cut you. Weird.
 
A tip up kinetic opening Gunting would be lethal to its owner. The Gunting is tip down and you're right it does fit tight but I did get cut.

I assumed it would be OK without testing my assumption. It would have required stitches if I'd been in a hurry.

Just a reminder that you're never too old (55) or too experienced (45 years using knives) to be stupid.
 
How tight is the pivot? If you can take the knife in any way and shake/snap out the blade one handed, it is *too* loose. I have my drone pretty tight...

Clinton
 
I use sheaths for my Gunting, most of the time. Skunkworks and Survival Sheath Systems so far, and I hope to try one of Mike Sastre's pocket sheaths soon. My Gunting has never (yet!)cut me, but I learned a rough lesson in 1994, on Christmas, when trying out a new fixed blade. I nearly severed a major tendon, and then wore a cast for six weeks. Regarding knives clipped into a pocket, I have had thumb-stud folders open and nick me while reaching past them in a pocket, so when I saw the ramp on the Gunting I knew to respect it!
 
The pivot is not at fault. You can't snap the blade open. This is a clear case of "pilot error" that I wanted to share with others so they don't repeat my mistake.

I plan on getting a Skunk Works sheath.
 
The one thing about that ramp on the G is that you have to respect it or be conscious of what its capable of doing.

Carelesness on my part has resulted in numerous knicks and cuts from not paying enough attention to that KinOp blade.
 
I'm another one that's had a close call.
Similiar circumstances, I was putting my live G in my pocket and the ramp caught on the pocket opening, as I continued to push the knife into my pocket, it opened the blade and pushed through the front of my pants leg. I'm just glad the tip went forward, away from my body, rather then back into my leg!
 
I am a newbie to the Gunting also. Awesome knife. I bought the Skunkworks sheaths for both the live blade and the drone, just with that concern in my head. Sadly, I still managed to be taught a lesson in Gunting safety practices. I was wearing my live blade one day and had a friend ask about it. I was explaining the KinOp feature and proceeded to open the blade on the edge of my hand as I had done with the drone many times in the past. One difference this time though. Instead of having my hand paralell with the ground, the palm was facing me when I proceeded to do a fast KinOp!!:o :eek: :footinmou Needless to say, a little over an inch of blade ended up embedded in the meat of my lower palm area!! OUCH!! Lots of blood and embarrassment. A fair effort went into stopping the bleeding and patching it up without going to the hospital. We managed and it is on the mend now. Lesson learned.
As much as I know about knives (or think I do)treat a new blade of unknown abilities as I would my firearms. SAFETY!!! I will not be dumb twice. It was too hard to stop the blood flow. It also made me realise that this knife would be far more dangerouse, to the BG when in the hands of a trained person. I sure hope Bram comes to Mass or even Maine this spring or summer. I will be there if he does.
 
I am sorry, I like spyderco knives. I have more than a half dozen. But I just shake my head when I hear stories like those related here about the gunting. That knife has injured far far more of those who carry it, than its ever going defend. Its the answer to a question nobody ever asked. Want a gimmicky opening knife, get a waved emerson commander. Sal had the right idea when he invented the spydie hole to open a knife. Also in way too many states you cant use the gunting horn as an impact/control device as its still considered using a weapon and and using it would be almost as problematic with the law as would the blade. No thanks. Oh yes, I have read a ton about guntings here on BF. I followed it since inception. Bram may have a great invention, but how many have to really get hurt to figure out it sure as heck was not designed using the KISS principle. I know, I just dont get it.......spare me. I think I do get it :(
 
Well Mike..
gee its an answer to a need not a question..
And those that posted about cuts said it was pilot error..we never forget those type of errors..
of course DRONES are an easier way to learn errors..ROFL..
actually you're very very wrong about people getting cut.....
it doesn't cut more users than it ever will in defense..
Its saved lots of lives..military, security and LEO.....
its been used in many real life encounters..
and the only damages were to the bad guys..
its in daily use in many real life hard use situations...
I can't figure out, nor can anyone for that matter pilot error..shooters error..driver error..
hmm Maybe we should give up on GLOCKS..there certainly were those that couldn't deal with the trigger safety..and because of the learning curve a few people got shot accidentally, accidental discharge and a few called it a gimicky tool this poly resin safety in the trigger firearm..some called it dangerous..
Of course time and experience has won out..and it's the most durable, most usable out of the box... most used firearm out there..
Many of my core groups never had the luxury of a DRONE..live blade only.and gee we're still in one piece..
The Gunting sure as s**t makes you respect the tool..
I know too many people who play with knives or treat them as just things they carry..
people who do things with live blades I cringe at..
no offense meant to those of you with simple pilot error cuts..you're not in this statement!
like trying to make it sit deep doesn't work..
KinOping it on parts without a DRone? thats cringable...
just a note..I've cut myself on lots of knives..including designing and using the Gunting...
but never in my pocket..but thats just me..my Karma I guess..
but I guess even out the in the pocket openers cause NEVER have I had it open in a pocket..not a bit..and I carry it as I slam n jam, work out..teach and daily carry..
No I don't use the holster all the time..

Knives are not to be taken for granted..like cars and guns..
casualness, familiarity, disrespect or lapse of attention can be a rude awakening..

Actually you're correct...you don't get it..
and spare you what?
its about as K*SS as one can get..

And you're wrong on using the impact tool and its being a weapon no matter what..so why use it...As Dan Johnson of Guns & Anmmo in the Shooters Toolbox wrote..its like using a leatherman tool with its pliers..its non lethal till you actively and with intent close the pliers and then open the blade..the best boon to the LEO community..
Of course Guns * Weapons for LE said the same thing..
Hmm so did several other police magazines..

But thats OK..its not for you..don't use it..don't carry it..

Just stand back & watch out..cause it's going to be industry standard..
and like many new tools its got a bit of a learning curve..

be safe..
Bram
 
Mike,
As Bram said. Pilot error, was how I got cut. It was not the tool, it was the dummy using it.:o That dummy is me! I am usually very careful with knives and actually am respected in my circles for showing people the right way to use their new knives, and how to sharpen them. I am the guy everyone comes to with questions on what knife would be right for this or that use. With that said, the self inflicted wound I managed to do was caused by not paying attention to detail and being a little to casul with a new tool. I would never do that with a new firearm, so this was a good wake up call to pay attention to detail and not take anything for granted. Lessons learned the hard way stick with me the best anyway.:rolleyes:
 
Bram, its your baby and you should be defensive. But the premise of your knife that makes it different.........correct me if I am wrong, is that it can be opened on the assailant. This is called kinetic opening. It can be used closed as a control type weapon using pressure points while closed. Where I live, if its used that way, and its carried for use that way, its a weapon and illegal. Anything carried as a weapon here is a weapon under the law. Bigger deal yet if its concealed. Its the Same as say, the executive ice scraper. Which by the way scrapes snow and ice great. I digress. After that the Gunting is above all a knife. You did put a pocket clip on it. YOu did not include a sheath with it. Correct? It sure seems to me that it sooner or later it will open if its clipped into a pocket. Yes that would be operator error, but not the type of thoughtless error like putting your finger on the trigger of a loaded gun. I think your knife has to have a sheath of some type and only be carried that way. Many do carry it that way. As for accidents, I do not hear of the same type of minor injuries from routine carry of any other spyderco model. Only talking pocket carry here, not goofinga around. The only thing that comes close to being similar is a knife with the blade pivot way too loose and it opens in the pocket. I see the horn as the problem. It seems overly easy to catch it on something. All this is merely anecdotal. I dont have hard numbers. So I may have a distorted point of reference. It just seems to come up over and over again here.

People like your knife. They want to buy it. They want to use it. But I dont. I said why. Its just my opinion, worth what you paid for it. I think a knife should first and foremost be a knife. I thing the other two functions of opening on the assailant and impact/control weapon interfere unduly with its primary mission of being a knife. But hey that's just me. But its a rational line of thought. Everyone says its their error, so why worry about my opinion. Key word here opinion. You have to agree its a highly specialized tool, probably not for everyday knife users like me.
 
Just like to say that that everyone has the right to an opinion, and here is mine. I pretty much disagree with most of your impressions of the Gunting. I don’t know about the law in the US so I won’t comment on it. I think the reason you hear more about the Gunting both positive and some negative is that it to that people seem either love it or are quiet negative towards it, there seems little middle ground. Those that love it are generally quiet vocal about it and want to share their experiences with others. This is sometimes includes their own shortcomings. I think this is very admirable to help others to avoid making the same mistake as they made. It says something about the Gunting that it inspires those that use it to write as much as they do.
I don’t agree that the Gunting is a highly specialized tool. Quite the opposite, yes it is different, yes u need a little training to understand but it is not rocket science. It is designed for its ease of use in highly stressful situation. When you use a regular blade you have to worry about being able to get your blade out and open to be able to use it. Which takes use some fine motor skills, the possibility of not opening the blade the first time when u need it most is I dare say are pretty good. (Unless you train for that event but still nothing is ever 100% certain) With the Gunting, it is there either in your holster or riding high in your pocket. You grab don’t have to worry about opening it and slam that ramp to the BG’s finger, hand or forearm. It’s not just pressure points you can use the Gunting on, it’s anywhere u strike or rake using the ramp, horn or butt of the knife. It can be as easy or as complicated as you want to make it. Let me assure you it hurts like hell. It gives you the option of not cutting if u don’t need to. This is also a lot easier to justify in court. If you do have to cut, it’s very simple just let the blade open as u strike your opponent and the blade is there for you to use. Yes it is called kinetic opening.
The whole reason that the Gunting is so different is because that it does have the kinetic opening and the ability to disarm somebody with a blade with out cutting or stabbing them. These features are just as important as the ability of cutting it gives people an ethical choice and allows LEO’s and others to assess the level of threat and use the force continuum. The Gunting is quite often used as a tool with out a blade at all, as in the Crmipt and the Drone. These are awesome self-defence tools in there own right.
I believe the Gunting without the ramp and it’s abilities would be another well designed knife but with it, it’s something special.
I know you can’t please all of the people all of the time….. and hey would u want to
 
Mike990: In your area, are even normal items, like small flashlights, if they are used as a weapon, they are considered weapons? (Think Kubotan....) And if they aren't used as weapons, how does an officer handle it when they find someone carrying one? What is considered a weapon before it is used? How does that reconcile with our "supposed" right to bear arms? Must you have a carry permit for anything?

Just Curious
Michael
 
It is difficult to help someone with law interpretation if a home state is not listed. There is a difference in something being a prohibited weapon in and of itself, and something being considered a weapon when USED IN A CRIME and therefore used to enhance the charge to "aggravated" status. In Texas, a single-edged knife under 5.5 inches in blade length is, by definition, not a weapon, but if a legal knife is used in an assault/injury, it makes the difference between misdemeanor assault and the felony of aggravated assault. I want to carry weapons that are legal to carry, because I do not want to go to jail for mere possession. If I need to defend myself, I will take the chance of being charged with using a weapon during an assault, because that can certainly happen, even if the self-defense was justified, and the possession of the weapon itself legal.
 
If the Gunting wasn't controversial ,it wouldn't be different. Think beofore you act is sometimes hard. Bram has made an effort to do videos and have training for the knife. You can buy the or just check out the site at www.cssdsc.com . I have seen people cut themselves with everything to a knife to a open can lid in my house( a friend split open the thumb). I have never opened the Gunting in my pocket or had it cut me while in my pocket. I do highly reccomend the holster for the Gunting though. That is the best way to carry it.
I know it goes w/o saying, but also be careful showing this or any other knife to someone. I had a cop take Endura and run it down his thumb to see how sharp it was. Silly cop - bad knife.

George
www.cssdsc.com
 
I know what you mean about showing someone a knife, or letting someone borrow a knife. I have watched many people bleed, since I have long been known as someone who always carries a knife. Now, if a person wants to borrow a knife, I will always question the purpose, and then usually hand them a Rescue, if not a screwdriver or pry bar. (Why do people want to use knives so often as bars?) If someone wants to see my Gunting, I first show them the red drone. If someone wants to see my Strider Karambit, I first show them the aluminum trainer. My Gunting and Karambit have not cut anyone. BTW, sheath knives are the worst, IMHO. Hand someone a knife in a snug, secure sheath, and he will wrap his fingers around the mouth of the sheath, so that he slices himself as the blades leaves the sheath. Almost as bad are the guys who will finish a task, then try to close a folder while their fingers are still in the path of the closing blade. The Gunting is certainly not the only blade that hurts people. My earlier mentioned downfall was actually a small, light hatchet, and an unfortunate glancing blow while chopping a scrap piece of wood.
 
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