Lets discuss this neat old summit knife

Campbellclanman

Campbellclanman

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
15,864
Hi everyone.
I hope this finds you all well out there in Traditionals.

I have just bought a few knives from a darn good knife friend, we all know him mainly because he is always a polite and helpful member here in Bladforums and very well respected.

I do want everyone to know that the knife's condition was no surprise and this thread is purely about the knife, I have no problem from the fantastic guy it came from, every knife I have bought off him has ALWAYS been extremely accurately described, the reason why I ask these questions is to see whether you guys and gals would do to this knife what I am thinking of doing, because to change a neat old knife is always sacrilege almost.

I thought it would be a neat idea to put this knife before you and pretty much have a good talk about it-I would love to be sitting at a big table with my forum friends while the BBQ is sizzling away, and pull this knife out and put these questions to the table of guests -it would be extremely interesting, so until such time I can have the pleasure of hosting my Traditional friends could we do the next best thing and have a looksee here? :)
Im sure some of you will remember this great old Summit that was shown here a wee while back, well - it was one of a few knives that came my way from my friend, I would like your opinions on this knife, and also whether what I have in my mind to do with the knife goes along with your thoughts.
I bought this knife knowing quite a few things from what I could see, I wanted it as a observation exercise and also ...no matter what has been done to the knife in the past- I thinks shes a pretty cool ol' gal, I just think the knife could look a little better....

Here is the knife...
Summit Knife Co
SHEFFIELDKNIVES025.jpg

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I love the grinds on the blade, but could I ask you your thoughts on whether you think the blade has been replaced-hey no big deal if it has...as we will get to that in a minute...
The main blade on both sides has "scalloping" in the surface-as if machining was finished halfway over the surface instead of going right along to ensure a totally flat surface, this is hard to explain,this is also evident on the Swedge.
Also as you can see the Tang stamping is quite messy, and is individually struck, also with this the Bolster has been messed with-as I will point out in photos.
What I want to know-am I correct-or do you think different?
SHEFFIELDKNIVES030.jpg

SHEFFIELDKNIVES035.jpg

The main blade looks slightly thicker, and has sanding arks etc down the spine, and seems to be slightly cleaner or different in colour - your thoughts?
Correct stamping on pen blade..
SHEFFIELDKNIVES031.jpg

The scales are of a beautiful Bone, they are heavily cracked on each side-one crack per side, and these seem to be stable..
SHEFFIELDKNIVES024.jpg

SHEFFIELDKNIVES026.jpg


So, now that we know the scales are cracked, and I suspect the Main Blade to have been replaced...would you send this knife to someone to re-scale the handle, and while that was being done, to just give the Main blades tang a re-surface and re-grinding the Main blade ever so carefully the exact grind it has-just so to re-freshen the corners of Swedges etc

I hope this doesnt sound silly, and would love to hear your opinions please.
Thank you for taking the time to look.
 
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It has almost surely had the blade changed out. I would try to determine if it has a good heat treat on it before spending significant money on it. Use it a bit and the knife will tell you if the blade steel and heat treat is good. If the blade is good and heat treat is good, then I would have some knife mechanic/repairman disassemble the knife and do some work on fixing up the swedge and reducing the blade thickness overall to match the spring thickness. Then put on new covers. I don't know if it is worth it on a value standpoint. You have to decide ultimately what you are willing to do.

Hope everything is going well for you, Duncan.

Ed J
 
Thank you Ed, and everything is going extremely well, I hope the same for you too my friend.

Good sound advice - thank you, the cost will be what it costs - so the value standpoint wouldn't be an issue - if I get the work done the knife would never be sold, only passed onto a friend, but they would have to pry the fat fingers open a bit.
 
I agree, the blade has been replaced. I have never seen that style of blade in that pattern of knife. The blade has a certain "flair" but is not what I would call traditional in this case.
My biggest worry would also be the usefulness of the blade, as far as heat treat, and subsequent edge holding, as Ed has already stated. Before I spent a penny on it for repair or enhancement, I'd sharpen it and use it vigorously. Whittle some wood; cut up a hundred cardboard boxes! If it takes and holds an edge, then it might be worth fixing up, but I certainly would not spend a boodle on it.
The jigging resembles old Case or New York Knife Greenbone. Could be a contract brand. Goins and Levine seem to indicate this, but it is not conclusive as I read them.

Rereading this, I realize I am not being too encouraging. This is from a collector's point of view. Little collector value is evident in my narrow opinion. Satisfaction in owning something unusual may be the only value.
 
What size of knife is this Duncan? That blade looks somewhat like an old jumbo whittler blade, at least the shape.
 
"Forensic Knifeology" is perhaps my favorite aspect of "knifin". When i first began reading in the BRL forum and read things like "with some brands fakes out number originals by 10:1", i thought it must be an exaggeration. But after 6 years of BRL;ing and read Witcher's "Counterfeiting Antique Knives", and buying a few thousand old knives on ebay, i now recognize the validity of this statement.
I have enough 'fakes' that they are a subgroup in my collection. Many are well done, are perfectly useable and give the same pleasing feel of the all original vintage knives.
One feature not often mentioned is that the snap of a replaced blade is often overly vigorous, a result i think of tang geometry displacing the spring further than would the original.
roland
 
Duncan.....

The large blade original or not looks great in the cigar frame.....it lays unobtrusively when closed and if the opening and closing is not effected by the width, I don't see a need to re surface it since you'll be using it anyway ........maybe simply blue it to mask the imperfections........though I understand that if it's going to be a regular carry to make it yours....than don't stop at the surfacing, continue with a media or sand blast to the blades and than a nice gun Kote finish for protection.....either way the handles aren't keepers they'll need to be replaced....
 
It does look like the main blade has been replaced. But as you show in the pictures, that blade is too thick as compared to the spring. That would have to be thinned out. As a whole, it's a decent looking knife.

A nice rescale job would mak that a great user, providing the steel on the main blade is good, as Charlie mentioned. Whoever works on it for you should mark it in some way to identify it as non-factory work.

That would make a great project! Thanks for showing it.
 
Hi Duncan, I like it just as it is, with all it's history intact. I'd sharpen her up and carry the heck out of it :D

Best regards

Robin
 
This is a great topic Duncan with a couple of neat directions one can look at it from. (1) Fix or not to fix or (2) Repaired or not repaired?

I concur with others about the blade possibly being replaced just due to the tang stamp. My history with the knife when I bought it was more on the side of (what a neat old knife) regardless of issues. Solid, good size, terrific feel to the bone albeit cracked but stable. I always tend to imagine where the knife has been, who carried it and for how long and if they replaced or reshaped the blade that the knife must have been a valuable tool to them to put that effort into it.

The option of having it reworked is absolutely a direction one can take and have a knife to treasure for years to come---I lean back towards what I mentioned above focusing more on it's history whatever that may be but now being able to put this great old knife back into service. I did have the knife for about 5 years and can say the blade is a truly functioning blade, heat treat wise. It whittled green bark from a pretty sizeable walking stick I made and was an EDC for a couple of years after that. It broke down cardboard and numerous other cutting chores and actually maintained it's edge extremely well:thumbup:

I like almost all of us here am passionate about knives. I am such a sucker if I encounter a vintage knife via the net or in an antique store. If it's looks good visually and feels right in the hand it's a sign that I must have it:o

I've bought knives that others would have passed on simply because there was an issue with either the blade or the covers. What I mean is if the covers where in great shape but the blades had issues or vise-verse I'd buy it because I liked one or the other. Unique blade shape/tang stamp or great jigging have always been hard for me to pass on.

The Summit just screamed (I have a ton of life left) and once heard I bought. I left it the way it was and used it and truly enjoyed it for the knife it was and still is. I also could envision it all reworked as well and that would be neat to see if that's the direction you were to take.

I see her as a link to the past yet shes still in use today without even skipping a beat. Call her odd/unique battered and bruised, I just love that shes still around in all her current glory;) I may have gotten a little off track there but I know we've all been there before:)

There's my 2 cents plus a little more. I know this Duncan, that whatever direction you go she is in very good hands:thumbup:

Take Care,

Paul
 
So long as it functions and cuts I wouldn't change a thing about it. It's a neat old piece that's got lots of character and years of pocket worn charm. Use it and enjoy it.
 
biglmbass said:
So long as it functions and cuts I wouldn't change a thing about it. It's a neat old piece that's got lots of character and years of pocket worn charm. Use it and enjoy it.
Click to expand...

I too would leave it as is.
If it bugs you, have the blade replaced. Covers are okay IMHO. But, it boils down to what you can live with.

Tom
 
Duncan, as it comes out of all posts, the main blade looks to be a replacement, I think so as well, but to my opinion it is great looking replacement add to this Paul experience as an EDC and you got yourself great blade. The scales, although cracked, are very appealing to my eyes, and I would have replace them only with similar old pocket worn jigged bone if you can find them. As for the blade I'd leave it as it is unless it has some wobble. The blade and scales are part of the knife now and if every thing is working and tight I'd give oil SPA and put it into the rotation.
I tried to look for a clue about manufacturer and got only with the info of Pavian cutlery co. of St. Paul MN making knives branded Summit during 1906-1920.
Mike
 
Hi folks,
Thank you very much for all your opinions-thats exactly what I wanted!

I posted up this great old knife to basically try to sway myself as to which way I would go....

Do I make this a project knife, and get it rescaled, and tidy the blade?
or
Do I use the ol' knife as it is?

Why I ask these questions is because of its work it has had in the past-collector value is gone, thats fine ( in this case ) as this was accepted before actually buying the knife. So to change the knife would not be the sin it usually would be if it were original, as I think with a freshen up, and nice new Bone scales-it would be extremely attractive.
But the knife still carries its own good look now too-please hear me there , I do see what you are seeing.

Thank you everyone who has come in and given their most valued opinion-each of the opinions was read carefully!

Paul-Thank you Sir, I am very much like you-I look at something-as I did with the knife that is the subject of this thread and go "what a great ol' Gal" as in what for cool old knife for use.

I do not think for one minute that the blade was replaced and then was tried to be passed on as an original, I think something happened to the main blade in its past life-as in it broke :rolleyes:, and this was a mere replacement - for use, not for monetary gain.

I wouldnt have a problem using the knife as is, so far from all the great advice it seems as though the thing to do-to test the blade, Paul has vouched for the blades ability to hold an edge.

To answer a couple of your questions....

Hal- the knife closed is 3-3/4 inches long, the main blade 2-3/4 inches long, thank you for asking.

Roland, how are you Sir? the walk and talk of the knife are what you would call between 4 or 5 on opening with a fairly soft - yet assertive opening snap, and closing the knife it has a crisp snap-no bear trap snap going on-its a pleasure to operate. No play in the blade when it's open. No half stops on either of the blades.

I think I will use this old knife as it is-as suggested, I will enjoy putting a edge to it this afternoon, although its not too shabby as it is!, but I would like to personalise it I guess by sharpening it myself.

Thank you everyone who has come in, I hoped it would be an enjoyable thought workout -as in what would you do :)
 
Great knife you've got there sir, I really love the fact that there seems to be so much history present in all it's characteristics! That being said, I'd leave her as is and carry it till the scales come off. Thereby, adding to the history of the knife. Either way, very cool thread and congrats to you for having such a cool piece.
 
Duncan,

that´s a great looking knife. I´ve never heard of Summit Knives before. I like the swedges on the blade; makes an unique looking grind. In combination with the equal end / cigar frame ... just nice :)

The tang stamp on the main blade is looking a little strange to me...

Thanks for sharing.
 
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