Let's look at "to dull".

[ALAMEDA]

OK! I do have better things to do, but once in awhile thoughts like this can pop into a head.

I think I know what sharp is. I know that different steels can be brought to different levels of sharpness.

I know that once a level of sharpness is reached that there is nowhere else to go but to then cause that edge to "roll over" and you have gone past the point of sharp.

Now let's go the other way once you have reached maximum (scary) sharp. Now you use (not abuse) that blade, and it begins its journey.....to dullville!

Here is my idiot question of the day:

Your finast steel! Your scariest sharpness! Now I want you to tell me something, knifeknuts!

I want you to take that blade and to start slicing very ripe tomatoes. I do not want you to slice a hot house tomato that resemble baseballs, but only the juiciest and ripest of tomatoes.

Further, after the blade goes to the end of each slice, I do not want the blade to touch any surface: like a cutting board of any kind.

Each slice of the tomato will infinitesimally dull the edge, science should tell us? The blade touching a board at the end of the slice will multiply that degradition of sharpness by a hundredfold each time. So do not touch the blade to any object other than the ripe tomato.

My question!

How many slices will you need to make before you can take that blade of the finast steel and the sharpest edge, and then run that blade over the inside of your arm and it will not cut the softest of skin: putting pressure on the handle with the action.

Never?

When?

Dan

 

[DGG]

My guess is 138 times. Did I win?!

The question is unanswerable because there is no "best steel" and the grinds will depend on the tasks at hand.

 

[tim8557]

Geez Dan...I usually have some sort of "wisdom" to add to your post, but not this time. On the other hand, if the board was end grain maple, and you lightly steeled the knife on an absulutely smooth steel before and after each use, after washing and drying it and storing it properly on its side in a block.....I think that the answer may be close to infinity.

As a side note, you only have tomatos as you've referenced for about 6 weeks if your lucky (if they even still exist).

 

[puukkoman]

Maybe they no longer exist in Ohio.... We've still got 'em every year.

Let's ask Mister Owl!
Mr. Owl, how many cuts does it take to get to the center of a tomato pop?

Let's find out.
One...
Two-hoooo...
Three...

*Crunch*

Three.

The world may never know.

 

[tim8557]

Maybe they no longer exist in Ohio.... We've still got 'em every year.

Oh we have them here...its just not a year around crop. So, most of the year you get the red polished, tasteless baseballs at the grocery store.

Besides, when we lived in Ellicott City.....everyone said I had to go get "Jersey Tomatos" (of course this was always Philly guys telling me that.

 

[Jeff Clark]

Let's see if I understand the test. I take a razor sharp knife, carefully slice a tomato, and then test to see if I can slit my wrist. Do I have that about right?

One of the problems with the test is that the tomato is so soft that your knife will primarily dull via corrosion. That will even probably be true for your stainless steel knife.

 

[Dune]

Let's ask Mister Owl!
Mr. Owl, how many cuts does it take to get to the center of a tomato pop?

Let's find out.
One...
Two-hoooo...
Three...

*Crunch*

Three.

The world may never know.

Aw, that was my answer. You beat me to it.

 

[G3]

Yeah and what about the recleaning since the time involved will surely cause buildup on the blade edge when it dries.

 

[ALAMEDA]

OK, Guys!

Yeah, I walked into this one with my eyes open and should have known the answers I'd get.

But the question is really apt.....and with a real science behind it.

It might have gone over better had I asked it at a different site. Maybe someone can steer me in that direction.

No! You don't sharpen the blade after every slice!

No! I wasn't thinking about cutting my wrists.

No! 138 slices is not the answer.

I once was at a gun site where the question was asked: How many rounds can be fired from a semi automatic handgun without ever cleaning the gun? When would the gun finally jam from the sheer build up of deposits from powder and other chemical residue?

Well someone attempted to fire a gun without stopping to clean it. I stopped reading the countless posts after this gun guy had fired over 25,000 rounds through it. He may still be firing this gun somewhere today, without a cleaning. And almost all gun nuts clean their firearms after even putting one round down range.

If you have no way of calculating how many slices of tomato would have to be cut before the best knife with the sharpest blade would be made dull: it is not because the knife would not become dull, Guys it is because no one here (especially me) knows how to do the math!

I just thought I'd go in another direction with a qquestion. Who wants to keep going over the opening and closing of folders, forever?

Dan

 

[Cliff Stamp]

One of the problems with the test is that the tomato is so soft that your knife will primarily dull via corrosion. That will even probably be true for your stainless steel knife.

Corrosion will be the main cause of blunting on non-stainless knives even on a cutting board, I have seen this reverse edge holding on multiple blades. However in the above case the extent of blunting would have to be so severe it would take a long time, you can stick a blade in salt water overnight and the next day it would still readily slice a piece of rope if you pressed hard. If you kept at it all day you could make 10 k cuts per day, and since you are looking at weeks before rust would be that much of a factor on the non-stainless blades, it is a minimum of 100 k cuts. However you also need for rust to be so severe that it moves beyond the saw/chipped edge and just rounds it over completely, so move up to 1 M cuts. Now on a stainless steel, it is probably higher. If you watch "how it is made" they often will quote replacement times for blades which just cut food and they will cut extremely high amounts, and they are not that blunt when they are replaced, they are just taking too much force or starting to tear too much. I think the answer for something like S90V would be longer than you would live.

-Cliff

 

[Jeff Clark]

Part of the issue is that you pick a very soft medium for inducing wear, a soft tomato, and another soft medium for measuring sharpness. This is a rather undemanding test and so the time to run the test is extensive. (I still don't like the idea of testing sharpness on my arm as we go).

I used to sharpen knives for a guy who used a tomato-only standard for sharpness. He would test my sharpening by taking 1/16-inch slices off of a soft tomato. If he could get clean slices that thin he considered the knife "sharp". He had a favorite tomato slicing knife. I only sharpened that once for him in a year. It never came back. The carving knives I saw a couple times in a year. By the way I was about 15 when I did this so I think the knives were carbon steel.

 

[GarageBoy]

Damn, wish I had that skill when i was 15..I still don't btw, so Jeff Clark, if you're looking for an apprentice..

 

[Cliff Stamp]

But the question is really apt.....and with a real science behind it.

Cut one slice, measure the extent of blunting, then 2, then 8, then 16, and so on, it follows a distinct pattern, you can then extrapolate as desired. The math isn't difficult. I have shown the progression on ropes, cardboard, carpet, etc. in various reviews.

-Cliff

 

[ALAMEDA]

Thanks Guys!

I think the answer for something like S90V would be longer than you would live.

Cliff, I had a feeling that this was the case.

In fact, although I am not in any way knife/blade knowledgeable, I sort of know that in my tomato scenario, the blade would first come to a point of cuts (after countless cuts) and then it would not be able to (easily) slice the outside skin of the tomato.

However, it would still easily be able to open human skin, due to the fact that the "grabbing" surface on human skin is in no way consistent and comparable to the slippery and "leatherly" surface of a tomato.

Now!

I do need to get a life!

Dan

P.S.

tim: Nice to "see" you again.