lets talk galling.....on titanium lock bars..

jbmonkey

jbmonkey

sure sure
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Is a sticky lockbar a bad thing? I see folks wanting to eliminate this characteristic on their titanium lock bars whether frame or liner lock setup. Using graphite and sharpie and other tricks. I even see manufacturers doing things like carbonizing and steel inserts to stop it.

I like a sticky lock myself. Feels less likely to have the lock bar come disengaged. What does the science..say? Good or bad when it comes to lock working properly? Thanks y'all.....
 
I don't know anything about this subject, but I'll be monitoring, as I think you asked a great question.
 
I don't mind sticky locks and don't see it as a big deal. If the lock works to keep the knife from closing and doing so to avoid any bladeplay, then it's working. I've never had a sticky lock become a problem to the point where it became an issue to complain about.
 
'Galling' is properly 'cold welding'. When it occurs the metal is damaged once it happens. There are a number of things that can be done to prevent it .That's the way , prevent.
 
As I understand it, the sticking lock is galling which is damaging the titanium lock face. The way it was described to me was that when you unlock a sticky lock you are basically tearing titanium molecules off of the lock face. It accelerates lock wear.
 
That's just the characteristics of mashing steel and titanium together. Every time you get a little stick, you are taking a microscopic amount away from the titanium lock bar. That's why manufacturers carbidize the lock bar. It allows for something other than soft titanium to contact the tang of the knife-- thus providing more longevity in the lock. Sticky locks are often a problem for people that sit there and open and close their knife until their thumbs are sore, but is not really a problem for those who just use their knife. My .02.
 
Its my understanding that galling is a molecular bond between the Ti and the steel... So from a locking standpoint, it decreases the likelihood of your lock slipping when an abrupt force is applied to the spine of the blade.

From a fondling standpoint, the "stickiness" can be annoying and feel like the lock is not "fit" as well.

From a practical standpoint galling is a good thing, for knifenuts who constantly flick their knives its can be viewed as a bad thing.

Also, every time your lock sticks a little bit of the Ti is being sheared off the lock face, expediting wear.
 
I've had a few knives that had a sticky lock to the point I was wearing out my thumb and causing pain in order to close them. I had two that needed to be closed with two hands and one of them I almost had to pry with a tool to release the lock bar. I tried graphite trick but that did not help at all. They needed to go back for service. One of them came back still sticky. No more $400 titanium framelocks for me.
 
good information, appreciated y'all.


would this be a somewhat fair assessment...if the maker of the knife doesn't carbonize the lock face or alter it to eliminate galling...... they have engineered it to last even with the galling damage to the titanium lock bar face to last the life span of a typical folding knife under "normal use"....yeah i know a highly subjective term.

maybe a better way to ask this is anyone even worn out/damaged a titanium lock bar face where the lock was compromised due to the galling/sticky lock issue?
 
coolhand68 said:
I've had a few knives that had a sticky lock to the point I was wearing out my thumb and causing pain in order to close them. I had two that needed to be closed with two hands and one of them I almost had to pry with a tool to release the lock bar. I tried graphite trick but that did not help at all. They needed to go back for service. One of them came back still sticky. No more $400 titanium framelocks for me.
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interesting and disappointing i can imagine. wonder how often this happens? thanks for your personal feedback and experience on the issue.
 
I have about 5 frame locks and none have ever had this problem. None have developed lock-rock or blade play either. Of course, they are CRKs, Hinderers, or custom, which may account for the better quality. Or I've been extraordinarily lucky.
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
I have about 5 frame locks and none have ever had this problem. None have developed lock-rock or blade play either. Of course, they are CRKs, Hinderers, or custom, which may account for the better quality. Or I've been extraordinarily lucky.
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did you spine whack them or throw them against a brick wall hard? :p
 
Just my opinion, but they were meant to hold a blade, without the need to be sticky. That doesn't add a "little extra security", that is a problem. I like ZT's for instance. They are very secure, but are smooth as butter, or at least the ones I have are. That said, there can be a problem with anything. It's after the point of sale, that you will find out how good the CS of a company is. I don't want them rocking, and I don't want them sticky either.
 
Here is my question: has anyone actually had the lockface move all the way over due to wear and subsequently cause blade play?

Even though Ti is softer than steel, it seems like it would take thousands and thousands of openings to wear down the Ti lock face significantly. Unless you own an older Strider, in which case 3 or 4 openings would do the trick :)
 
crg031 said:
That's just the characteristics of mashing steel and titanium together. Every time you get a little stick, you are taking a microscopic amount away from the titanium lock bar. That's why manufacturers carbidize the lock bar. It allows for something other than soft titanium to contact the tang of the knife-- thus providing more longevity in the lock. Sticky locks are often a problem for people that sit there and open and close their knife until their thumbs are sore, but is not really a problem for those who just use their knife. My .02.
Click to expand...

I fully agree with your statement. I do not understand why the obsessive compulsive disorder to flick knives several hundred times in a row provides. On one hand younhave people that want to break a knife in accelerate the wear of the safety mechanism. They when the thing fails or is not a safe as it once was, they blame the manufacturer. It's counter productive to say the least.
 
I can't imagine that it can hinder lock up, like you I think it may increase the locks stability. It only makes sense. I'd venture to say that a properly designed lock shouldn't gall though.

I have had a ton of ti locks and have never had them gall. I have been able to force the lock over which galls the face, but I only tried that on a (very expensive) knife that I didn't trust anyway.

Good question. :)
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
Here is my question: has anyone actually had the lockface move all the way over due to wear and subsequently cause blade play?

Even though Ti is softer than steel, it seems like it would take thousands and thousands of openings to wear down the Ti lock face significantly. Unless you own an older Strider, in which case 3 or 4 openings would do the trick :)
Click to expand...

i have two spyderco brad southars's i have flicked to death opening and closing!and nether has shown any lock-bar movement witch would cause blade play! both these where my 1st TI framed folders,but there lock bar's have stayed at about 40% and its been about three years now and showing no problems,don't no if other people are having such luck though.
 
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