Levergun/Ammo questions

Bamboo

Bamboo

Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
2,315
I've been looking into lever action rifles lately. Have always had an interest in them, and the time is getting close to picking one up. I had a few questions that I thought some of you could speak to ....

Primarily, I'm getting one because (in realistic order) -
1. Always loved 'em, just want to have one.
2. Target shooting/fun.
3. Perimeter/home defense.

My goal is to get one chambered in either .44 or .45, and a matching handgun to boot. My preference for a pistol is a 1911 style, presumably a Dan Wesson Commander Classic Bobtail, obviously in .45.
(anyone know if there's a .22 conversion kit that will fit this gun? Kimber's??)


From a rifle standpoint, what's the difference between a .44 mag and a .45?


And just for the heck of it, what about a .357 mag? Then I could pick up my second option for a pistol, a nice S&W wheelgun .....


Any suggestion on levergun manufacturers? I've been looking at Marlin and Winchesters. I like elements of each. Have heard great things about the Marlins, and that Winchesters have gone downhill over the years, but are still completely solid rifles.


Thanks all!

~ Bamboo ~
 
using commonly available ammo there's a huge difference between .44 Mag and .45 Colt. If you use +p .45 Colt Ammo the gap closes dramatically. Problem is if you use the +p stuff, you gotta be careful what kinda revolver you've got. Rugers, Freedom Arms,Magnum Research aren't a problem, try stuffin' 'em in a Peacemaker Repro, and you could wind up wiping and eating with the same hand.

I've known reloaders that claim that the .45 Colt has enormous power potential, that makes it an entirely different creature.

Using commonly available store ammo the .44 Mag is a real good choice and much less.....demanding.

the .357 aint no joke in rifle chamberings. Out of all the handgun cartridge chambered rifles the .357 tends to gain FAR more velocity than any other cartridge out of a longer barrel. I'm talkin' about right up next to the power of a 30-30. It's been awhile, but I seem to recall 125 Grain Federals doing 1900 out of the Marlin I had as a kid. First five shots outta that rifle killed four deer. One shot was to sight it in.:thumbup:

I'd stick with the .44 or .357. Of course for that matter I'd consider a Marlin over a Winchester. Unless you wanna buy one of my Winchesters, they're the greatest ever......;) ) Just kidding, All I've got left is 30-30's anyways.
 
There is something about those lever guns, isn't there?
I have only ever owned one, for a yr or so, A Little Big Horn Commerative
in .44-40. I only put about 10 rds through it, so I barely got to know it.

I have never seen a lever gun in .45 ACP, but .45 Long Colt is available
in some of the Henrys I believe, as well as the Winchesters. A .45 Long Colt
pistol is going to pretty much be a Colt Single Action type.

For an all-purpose, easy to shoot rifle, they are a good bet.
Although I have 2 AR's, a Socom 16, an M1 Carbine, and a Garand,
a rifle is not really a good defensive choice for me in my sub-division castle.

My CZ 97 .45 ACP or SA Micro-Compact .45 are the basis of home defense here. A Remington 870 with 18" bbl, 7 rd mag, Hakko reddot, and Cavalry Arms AR stock set-up is my perimeter weapon.

DaddyDett
 
You won't find a rifle in .45 acp which is what the 1911 style guns would be in.

You also won't find any of the 1911 models in .357 or .44 mag.

You may have to rethink the caliber or rifle/pistol combo.
 
S&W is going to be a much easier choice for a sidearm, Ken.

Also, be aware the the Smith Model 25 in .45 Colt can take more pressure than the old SAA, but is nowhere near the capability of the older Rugers (new Ruger .45 Colts are built on a slightly smaller frame).

ASAIK, Coonan Arms was about the only choice for .357 Mag in a 1911.
 
ClintB said:
You won't find a rifle in .45 acp which is what the 1911 style guns would be in.

You also won't find any of the 1911 models in .357 or .44 mag.

You may have to rethink the caliber or rifle/pistol combo.
Click to expand...

I would think there'd still be a couple of the Marlin Camp 45s floating around, as well as the Mec-Tech conversions.
 
The part of this that I've never really 'gotten' is why does one want to have the rifle and pistol using the same cartridge?
 
45-70 said:
The part of this that I've never really 'gotten' is why does one want to have the rifle and pistol using the same cartridge?
Click to expand...

In modern times, I kind of agree.
Back when everything you owned fit in saddlebags, it made tons more sense.

DaddyDett
 
I like the 44 mag. Before I got a rifle I had a Ruger Vaquero in 44 and a Ruger Redhawk in same. The redhawk can take the enormously powerful Garrett 44 mag. cartridges (330 gr HC at 1440 ft.lbs). So when I picked a rifle I got the Marlin 1894 in 44 mag. and had it gunsmithed to also accept the Garrett Cartridge. Out of the rifle the Garrett 44 is producing around 2200 to 2300 ft. lbs. - easily beating the 30-30, and you can go loaded with 9-10 rounds. Incidently, Buffalo Bore also makes heavy loads for both 44 Mag. and 45 LC.
 
Ruger has a redesigned Vaquero with a more modest grip frame and frame, the old XR3. I no longer recall enough to talk about this- the days when I rolled off model numbers are gone. However, I would seriously doubt the difference in strength between this mid size frame and the New Model Blackhawk frame would be a factor in warm 45 Colt loads. I would prefer the New Model, which is still made and available in many calibres, including 41 mag, 45 Colt, 357 and 44 The new Vaquero, though, may handle differently, maybe even better, and it's worth looking into.

OK, Ruger still makes big boom boom.

Unless you handload, or want to pursue premium loads from select manufacturers, (which are available none the less, and if you don't fire hot 45 Colt loads often maybe you should think about it. Normal 45 colt loads of standard SAAMI spec would be a joy in either the New Model or the New Vaquero) you may not want the 45 Colt. Keep in mind even in a lever the cases will not last as long because they make lever chambers pretty damn big for that cartridge.

There is a great argument to the 357. It would be formidable as a home defense gun, you could hunt deer with it in a rifle comfortably, and in a revolver have a choice of mild 38's or the more powerful 357

There is an argument to the 44 mag. Pretty much the same discussion as the 357 but more, and a wide variety of loads, including 44 special, though I don't know all that many folks who actually shoot the Special.

I like levers. I have a 45 colt, a 45/70, and 38/55

I prefer Marlin

munk
 
The part of this that I've never really 'gotten' is why does one want to have the rifle and pistol using the same cartridge?>>>>>>> 45/70

In case the Mongols come over the ridge and in the dark you don't want to fish around for different cartridges?



munk
 
I say go with the Marlin. The Winchester 94 in the pistol calibers sometimes can be short-stroked (it was made for a cartridge half again longer than the .44). That is, unless, you get a Browning (Winchester) 92. Now that is the cat's pajamas! Strongest of the bunch, for sure.

I think you are concusing the .45 ACP, launched out of the 1911 Colt, with the .45 Colt (sometimes erroneously called the .45 Long Colt).

Have fun, be safe, buy one of everything :D
 
One other item: I have heard of some folks having extraction issues on .45 Colt lever guns due to the wimpy rim. It is not nearly as robust as on the other two chamberings listed. YMMV
 
Thanks everyone. I was definitely confusing the .45 acp with the .45 colt.

I'm glad to hear good things about the .357. That could be a nice match with a S&W revolver.



Why the same load for separate guns? Mostly, I find the simplicity of it a sexy thing. Yes, it harks back to days when you carried what you owned over your shoulders or strapped to your horse. I like that.

Also though, and slightly more practical, is that I'll never be a big gun owner. I like them, there's a few I want to own (as listed above, plus a nice .20 gauge coach gun :D ), but I don't need many... Mostly I'll be target shooting, so a lighter round through the rifle would be more fun. And shooting 38's out of a revolver, with .357's in reserve for home defense is a sensible way to go.


Say I had a .44 or .357 rifle, are there any loads I shouldn't put through it?

What's the biggest game I could realistically/ethically hunt with a .357?


Cheers,

~ B
 
munk said:
In case the Mongols come over the ridge and in the dark you don't want to fish around for different cartridges?

munk
Click to expand...

You just keep the rifle ammo in the rifle magazines, in the rifle mag pouches. The pistol ammo in the pistol mags in the pistol mag pouches. Everything has a place, everything goes in it's place.

Seriously I just don't get it.
 
Runs With Scissors said:
I would think there'd still be a couple of the Marlin Camp 45s floating around....
Click to expand...
I've got one. :thumbup: It's a prize. Norm does too (maybe his is 9mm). :confused:

Lever's are still a good choice. The Marlin 336 has done me well for over 25 yrs... :eek: A 336 in .357 would be a good thing to have. But these new Henry's are great. My Henry .22 lever is super accurate, very well made.

Lever's are light and point well. Get a decent wheelgun to go with it. It's a boring world if we all shot the same autos.

That's why I'm looking for a good, clean, used Erma MP-40 in .357 SIG.

Perfect for armadillo season.


Ad Astra :foot:
 
Bamboo said:
Say I had a .44 or .357 rifle, are there any loads I shouldn't put through it?

What's the biggest game I could realistically/ethically hunt with a .357?


Cheers,

~ B
Click to expand...

Bamboo I have a Ruger Security Six in .357 and a Marlin Carbine in the same.:thumbup: :D
I don't know if it is true or not but several years ago before I bought either of my .357's I heard tell they were going to be legal for elk in Oregon which is why I bought it.
In order to take an elk with a .357 I'd definitely use the carbine and try to get 50 yards or less if possible.
IMO the .357 is good for whitetails out to 100 yards with the carbine and 158 grain SJH bullets.
I wouldn't be afraid to shoot the heavy duty Buffalo Bores in either of my .357's.:thumbup: :D :cool:

When I bought my Ruger .357 I was seriously considering the .44 Magnum but I'm really glad now that I went with the lighter .357 because of my health and degenerative bone disease that finally surfaced.
A .44 will beat you to death with heavy loads if you shoot very much, at least IMO.
I've made head shots on squirrels with my carbine in both .357 and .38 Special.;) :D
The .38's are all right for small game and cheap to shoot, another plus IMO. YMMV.;)
 
Oddly enough my .357 rifle was illegal for deer hunting in Georgia, while a pistol was legal. The belief was that the rifle got the bullets travelling at hyper velocities which sheered weight off them and made them ineffective. Good thing I never got around to more than a few 400 yard shots with my little carbine...:rolleyes:
 
Never let common sense get in the way of a good time.

Locally, the manuals state (IIRC) that while hunting with a 1911 is technically legal, it's a pretty bad idea. They say why. I'm sure some folks try it anyway.

I'm still flogging the Glock G20 as the Outdoorsman's Pal, but not many listen to me. (Including me, and my excuses are probably worse than yours.) If a magazine of 10mm won't get 'er done, you probably need a long gun by my reasoning. Now, if we can get 10mm softpoints at a reasonable price...

Back on topic, there's a certain amount of wisdom to finding a load that my levergun and revolver shoot equally well. Unfortunately, it's a lot of trouble and I seldom carry either on my walks.
 
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