Lightweight winter Sleep/shelter system?

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kfgk14

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I want to do more backpacking/bushcrafting this fall and winter.

I currently have a 30 degree bag, a Hennessy Hammock, and a thermarest pad.

I've looked into winterizing the hammock, and it just gets so heavy. Also, the hammock doesn't accommodate a stove, so I'd need greater insulation.

I've been looking into the Kifaru Parahootch with the annex they sell. I'd get a 10 or 20 degree bag, use my current sleeping pad, and I am also considering a stove.

I have a few questions:

1.) Is there a lighter shelter (something other than the Parahootch) that will accommodate a stove and can be set up using trekking poles and ultralight stakes/snow stakes?
2.) Are there any stoves lighter than the Kifaru stoves that are compatible/could be retrofitted to the Parahootch or whatever shelter system I decide on?
3.) what are the lightest-weight 10-20 degree bags out there, for the best price possible?

Thanks.
 
I know that folks have fitted stove jacks to some of the Golites Shangra-La series

titaniumgoat makes the lightest stoves I'm aware of (also sells stove jacks and his own pyramid line as well)

http://titaniumgoat.com/products.html

the lightest weight 10-20 bags are from Feathered Friends, Western Mountaineering and Marmot's upper end- I'd scour ebay and some of the backpacking forums for a good price on a used bag, I often see Marmot Helium's (15 degree) for good prices


I'd also look at Katabatic Gear- they have some really nice quilts which can be used on the ground or hammock, the workmanship and material quality is top notch (I recently bought one of their Pallisade quilts)

http://katabaticgear.com/shop/category/sleeping-bags/
 
I wouldn't rely on a stove for in-tent heating for safety reasons: 1) fire, and 2) suffocation. A good insulating mat like a Thermarest and a sleeping bag rated to the lowest temperature you anticipate experiencing, with a tent to keep wind/snow/sleet out should be sufficient. You can add insulating properties by wearing polarfleece (not cotton or wool!) underwear when you sleep, and a toque (also synthetic). Some novices make the serious mistake of wearing all their clothing in their bag, which leads to moisture accumulation and loss of insulating properties. Colin Fletcher's The Complete Walker is an excellent book on virtually all aspects of hiking/camping, and there are many other sources of information. I prefer using white gas stoves in winter -- outside the tent -- for cooking, melting snow, as they function in any temperature. Some of the butane/propane type canister stoves don't function well as seriously cold temperatures.
 
I seen a thread on the kifaru forums about a guy using his hammock with a kifaru stove. He had one of those winterized tarps that closed up on the ends. Might be alot cheaper just buying the new tarp and stove instead of a whole new system.
 
Never used a stove myself but I have slept comfortably in a military sleep system with the Gore Tex bivy. I set it on a Thermarest foam mat with a small tarp strung overhead.
 
What do you consider light weight?
What poundage?

Where will you be camping in New Hampshire?
In the White and above the timberline?
Or just in woods below the timberline?
In deep snow?

I used to do extensive winter camping snowshoeing backpacking in the Whites, Green Mountains and the Adirondacks.

I seperate fall cold weather with very light snow and very cold full winter with deep snow.
Cold fall weather is easy with a good sleeping bag, insulating pad, and a tarp and I always used a cooking stove.

For mid-winter with many feet of snow, I used a self standing tent. I used a Eureka Timberline, at under 6 lbs, which fit my very limited budget.
It was simple and fast to use and I could chose anywhere to camp.
I understand 6 lbs is not lightweight, but to be able to set a tent that floats on the snow was vital to me.
And the tent took heavy snow falls which was also very important

I also used a poncho and bivi bag set up, where I dug a snow trench, so I was completely out of the weather and was significantly warmer with a candle to heat.
But this set up was time and effort and in the short winters days, this meant I had to stop much earlier and expend effort in the set up.


So for snow camping, I would look at a self supporting tent or one that is hooped and is near to self supporting

My 2 cents from my experience
 
In extreme cold you can build a reflective fire which can run you out of a trap shelter. That way you dont have to mess around with stoves and pipe. Winter is my favorite time to be out. I use a 20 degree bag and with a fire and lightweight tarp sleep warm and restful! Wish it would cool off soon!
 
Weighs a bit more -- 22 oz instead of 11 -- but consider the Tarptent Contrail. Mosquito netting, nicely sized vestibule, sets up with one trekking pole, stakes included. Have used mine for over 2 years, in some fairly heavy weather, and I've been nothing but pleased.

Look at the Big Agnes bags. They are lighter weight than most because they don't have fully insulated bottoms -- there is a pouch to insert your thermalite instead. Saves a lot of weight and honestly works better than conventional bag with pad -- you never roll or slide off the pad. I got one of the larger sized Big Agnes bags, so I could use my conventional bag as a bag liner. Example: if you get a 40 deg. Big Agnes such as the Buffalo Park, and use your 30 deg. bag as a liner, you are good down to around 15 deg. This is based solely on my experience, not a scientific appraisal. YMMV. What you get this way is a very flexible system. When the weather gets warmer, leave the 30 deg. bag at home and use the Buffalo Park. When weather is a bit cooler, sleep in your 30 deg. bag in the way you've been doing. When it gets even cooler, put the 30 inside the Buffalo Park. Or, for just a bit more money, invest in a fleece liner. This, inside the Buffalo Park, is your cool weather bag -- leave the 30 at home in all but the coldest weather. I camp about once per month, rain or shine, wind or snow, and this system works great for me.
 
if you want really light for winter use, look at the Mountain Laurel Design Duomid- it's the shelter I use year round in Montana, in the "summer" simply add the inner tent option, the shelter (pyramid) weighs 16 oz (about 19 oz +/- depending on guy line/stakes), sleeps two comfortably in the "winter" (sleeps two semi-comfortably w/ the inner tent), the inner tent weighs 13 oz- which isn't needed in the winter

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=47&products_id=105

utilizes your trekking poles which I use summer and winter (just put snow baskets on w/ my snowshoes)

this tent can take heavy wind and good snow loads (need to utilize all guys provided w/ this kind of weather)

this is the shelter that Andy Skurka used on his short 5000 mile trans Alaska jaunt :)


just use an appropriate rated sleeping bag for the weather, I use a 0 rated Marmot (Lithium)- w/ my down clothing I've pushed it to below zero, if I know it's going to be below zero I normally opt for other entertainment :D
 
I'm generally a hammock guy in 3 seasons, but prefer tarp camping in the winter. I just find it easier to insulate from the ground up. If I know the area or have pre-scouted a site, I will sometimes just bring my ultralight pad and build up insulation on the ground using spruce/cedar bows (make sure its ethical to collect at the site you are at), grasses and sedges (perfect near river/marshy sites) and even logs over-layed with sticks. However, you do have to recognize that doing this takes time and you want to be pretty sure the materials are at hand on site. If its iffy, then I bring a closed cell foam pad and put my ultralight on top of that.

For a sleeping system you can either use a fire/tarp/wool blanket or go with a sleeping bag that is warm enough to meet the challenges of the cold. This is far lighter than going with a stove/shelter combo. I haven't gotten the confidence to do the fire/wool blanket in the deep cold that we get here but I've hung around guys who do this frequently. Hanging a reflector blanket by the fire side works great. I just wouldn't try this with a sleeping bag because I get nervous at what a spark + synthetics can do to a bag.

On the sleeping bag, I opted for a heavy one (Wiggy's ultima-thule) which is good down to -35oC. Its really not all that bad weight wise and I feel as though forgoing the tent more than makes up for the bulk and weight of this bag. I can sleep in it comfortably under pretty much all the conditions I typically camp under and if I have to, I can layer up inside the bag because it is the extra-wide one. Really, anytime I'm expecting it to be that cold, there is going to be snow on the ground so chances are I'm humping my gear by sled not by backpack. Packpacking in the snow sucks as it just makes you sink that much more. Plus, you eat a tonne more in the winter so the sled helps you pack those high energy foods.

I debated a long time between my Wiggy's bag and a high end down one. In the end, the Wiggy's cost 1/4 of the price and the savings I had from the bag let me go on two more winter trips that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford. So, while I think getting the best gear does have many advantages, I also weigh in the factor that making dirt time happen is more important than acquiring new kit.
 
Bill Siegle said:
Never used a stove myself but I have slept comfortably in a military sleep system with the Gore Tex bivy. I set it on a Thermarest foam mat with a small tarp strung overhead.
Click to expand...

Add Integral Designs Hot Socks and it's perfect. :)
 
kgd said:
I'm generally a hammock guy in 3 seasons, but prefer tarp camping in the winter. I just find it easier to insulate from the ground up. If I know the area or have pre-scouted a site, I will sometimes just bring my ultralight pad and build up insulation on the ground using spruce/cedar bows (make sure its ethical to collect at the site you are at), grasses and sedges (perfect near river/marshy sites) and even logs over-layed with sticks. However, you do have to recognize that doing this takes time and you want to be pretty sure the materials are at hand on site. If its iffy, then I bring a closed cell foam pad and put my ultralight on top of that.

For a sleeping system you can either use a fire/tarp/wool blanket or go with a sleeping bag that is warm enough to meet the challenges of the cold. This is far lighter than going with a stove/shelter combo. I haven't gotten the confidence to do the fire/wool blanket in the deep cold that we get here but I've hung around guys who do this frequently. Hanging a reflector blanket by the fire side works great. I just wouldn't try this with a sleeping bag because I get nervous at what a spark + synthetics can do to a bag.

On the sleeping bag, I opted for a heavy one (Wiggy's ultima-thule) which is good down to -35oC. Its really not all that bad weight wise and I feel as though forgoing the tent more than makes up for the bulk and weight of this bag. I can sleep in it comfortably under pretty much all the conditions I typically camp under and if I have to, I can layer up inside the bag because it is the extra-wide one. Really, anytime I'm expecting it to be that cold, there is going to be snow on the ground so chances are I'm humping my gear by sled not by backpack. Packpacking in the snow sucks as it just makes you sink that much more. Plus, you eat a tonne more in the winter so the sled helps you pack those high energy foods.

I debated a long time between my Wiggy's bag and a high end down one. In the end, the Wiggy's cost 1/4 of the price and the savings I had from the bag let me go on two more winter trips that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford. So, while I think getting the best gear does have many advantages, I also weigh in the factor that making dirt time happen is more important than acquiring new kit.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...very good point about the sled...
Any recommendations in that regard?
 
I have used a Paratarp, Supertarp and Paratipi. I prefer room so take a Paratipi as my go to winter shelter. It is just so bomb proof and could be heated on the dark side of the moon though been looking at their new Sawtooth shelter. In any case the smallest Kifaru stove is the Parastove.

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The most UL stove beyond a DIY job maybe the rollup stove made by Ti-Goat. This is one of the first made for testing. I don't often use it but at 1 lb 10 oz it is very UL. I think Ti-goat did an upgrade in 2010.

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During winter I prefer my small stove as there is a trade off between firebox size and work. The bigger firebox is easier to prep wood for and will burn longer between stoking. Also will put out greater heat. There are more factors to a gear item than simply it's weight.

IMG_4377.jpg
 
Jacks R Better do top quilts and under quilts (for hammocks) that are good down to 0 degrees F. There are a number of excellent lightweight tarp makers made specifically for hammocks. I have a Warbonnet tarp that's excellent you can also a cool enclosed one from HammockGear.com made from Cuben Fiber.... pricey though!
 
I so enjoy WWs post about Kifaru shelters, it was him who got me looking at them when he posted a few of his adventures on the ZS forums. I bit and never looked back. I also would take his advise to heart about which shelter to go with. The paratipi or sawtooth (taller so you can actually stand). The paratarp/ supertarps are nice, I own a supertarp and it is veyr lightweight, put up with a lot BUT the annex will let some stuff in dependingon how the wind blows, most the time it is not a concern since it does not really affect anyhting, but one time out we had a snow storm blow in and the wind was just perfect which brought in some snow, I was half tempted to relocate but it died within a hour or so then the wind shifted and we had no issues, but for a while there I was worried.

As for bags... I have a few Wiggys bags for emergency use, like a power outtage in the winter, or for family car camping, and even used to hike mine in, however after coming across some money in Iraq last year, I purchased some new sleep gear, I went the route of Kifaru regulators. I could smack myself for not doing it earlier. Yes Wiggys work,BUT they are heavy and DAM LARGE to pack. Just for instance...

Here is a Wiggys 20* wide long in a granite gear compresison sack (on the right) next to a Kifaru 20* slick AND 0* MOB std width long bags in a L Kifaru 5 sting stuff sack. They are about the same size until you concider that the Wiggys is good to 20F where the Kifaru is good to -35F.

bagcomp13.JPG


Here are the Kifaru 0 (std width long) and Wiggys 0 (wide long) by themselves, first you will notice that they are about the same size, I was VERY surprized about this. The wiggys weighs in at 5lbs 2.5 oz for the bag and 6.8 oz for the stuff sack (it will be 7.8 oz if you use the Wiggys provided stuff sack). the Kifaru weighs in at 3lbs 1.1 oz for the bag and 2.6 oz for the stuff sack. Or basically saying it it not quite 2.5lbs lighter. Add in a supertarp with annex, and small stove you can have your bag, shelter, and stove for 1.5 lbs more than just the sleeping bag ONLY if using a wiggys. If using the sawtooth, depending on options, it will be a few lbs more (about 4 or so).

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Good luck on your quest for gear.
 
kfgk14 said:
@ woods walker, does the Ti goat stove work with the Kifaru paratarp/annex combo?
Click to expand...

Yup, the annex can accept a stove pipe up to around 3" if not a little bigger the pipe will just be angled towards the rear a bit more than usual. The Tigoat stoves will work just fine. Recommend a stove pipe length of about 48" since that is what Kifaru cuts the small and para stove pipes to if ordered with the paratipi, supertarp, and paratarp. Tigoat is actually local (Ogden Ut, about 15 minutes) to me and the guy is nice to deal with.
 
Because of spoolup post on the wiggy vs Kifaru (which has posted before) I started drinking the Kifaru cool-aid. Thanks!
 
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