Lil Temperance: trailing vs leaf and some long term observations

ThinkOfTheChildren

ThinkOfTheChildren

Joined
Jul 7, 2000
Messages
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The Lil Temperance has been a fairly popular knife on the forums, especially since supply has been lagging behind demand. We want what we can’t have, I guess :)

With the Leaf Point (LP) in shorter supply than the Trailing Point (TP), some people have been “settling” for the TP. But what’s so different about these knives anyway? Well, I present to you, drum roll please…

ToTC’s guide to selecting the TP or LP.

I know, I know, it’s a stupid title. Well screw you.

Basically, if I was going to sum this all up into one question to you, it would be, “Belly or tip?” I.E. what part of your knife do you use more, the belly or the tip? The TP is more of a belly knife, while the LP is more of a tip knife. So if you’re going to decide on one factor alone, let this be it. There are other more minor considerations, however:

  • The TP is lighter.
    We're talking maybe an ounce of difference at the most but I can tell. The weight difference is most apparent when the blade is locked open. The LP is therefore more blade heavy.
    Both of them balance in a weird way though. After all, look at how thick the handle is compared to how thick the blade is. Yes, yes, the spine of the blade is thick, but it’s a full-flat grind which leaves the blade pretty thin. This is especially true of the TP which is paper thin.
  • The TP fits inside of the handle better when closed.
    The TP blade fits flush under the finger grooves at the butt of the handle. For this reason, I think the TP carries better. If you ask me, when the LP is closed, it looks like the blade doesn’t quite belong in the handle. YMMV
  • The LP has a stronger tip.
    After all, the LP’s spine is left more intact and therefore the point is at a less tapered portion of the blade. Of course, this also means that the TP has a finer tip which can perform more intricate tasks. The TP is a real splinter-picker, but not the LP.

So how do they hold up over time? Well, I’ve carried my TP a whole lot more than my LP. I prefer its lighter weight, better handle fit, and thinner geometry. So my observations are mostly of the TP.

Well this thing is a tank, buuuuut, mine has developed vertical blade play. In fact, it has developed more blade play than any knife I’ve ever had. Hmmm…. not so great, I know, but at the same time, it’s a pitbull of a knife. So why has it developed play then?

I think this is just the behavior of the compression lock. Throughout different stages of wear, you might get some vertical blade play. But once the lock wears some more, the play goes away. Then the lock wears a little more, and it comes back. Weird, huh? Well I’ve seen it with my Gunting, Gunting trainer, and now with my Lil Temperance TP. So what are the solutions?
1. Deal with it. If you can get over the fact that your knife has blade play, it’s not really a problem. The lock is still 100% reliable; it just lets the blade wiggle a bit.
2. Wait a little for the lock to wear some more.
3. Adjust the eccentric pivot.

The Lil Temperance is a real performer! The edge geometry is amazing and while I certainly wouldn’t pry with it (thin blade made of soft steel), it’s a cutting machine!

As I warned in another thread, however, the pocket clips on these things really chew up your pockets. I bent the clip waaay out on my TP and it’s helped. It’s still secure in the pocket but now you can click the clip when you grip on the handle really hard. You know what I mean?

I’m not sure what else to say about these, so ask me some questions! I know that you guys have a ton of them.

In short, I love the Lil Temperance but I could do without the blade play and the sadistic clip.
 
not sure about your hypothesis on the blade play, have a gunting and trainer, and have played w/both a lot, w/no blade play at all on either, horizontal OR vertical.

compression locks seem to work pretty good to me, wanna try a temp soon,

thanks for the review,

greg
 
Excellent, and thanks for the writeup.

Being that I am a lefty, and you clued me in on the inadvisability of getting a lil temperance before, I still don't have one.

I do have a question though, about the TP fitting inside the handle better when closed..do you have a comparison pic to show this difference?

I would opt for a leaf point blade myself, but again, if the grip is that lefty unfriendly, I will hold off some more.
 
The compression lock works on essentially the same ramp principle as the liner lock. There should not be any axial play in the blade, and the ramp should compensate for wear. Axial play in the open position indicates that the lock is not seating properly. Something is preventing the lock bar from sliding all the way over. Could be lack of spring pressure, or friction on the face of the support pin above the lock bar.

The funny thing with the trailing point is that the Lil'Temp's handle is very much designed for thrusting.
 
TOTC I don't have a LP, but I know this is an excellent comparison. When you say the balance of the knife is weird, this is not very descriptive. IMO the balance is awesome! As you aptly point out, there is a lot of weight in the handle. This makes for knife that feels Very light. In fact, it is Very light in terms of handling and maneuverability. Think of it as a slasher's wet dream come true! Quick and agile!

My blade also loosened up. When I checked the tightness of the Torx screws, I found the screw holding the Anvil Bar was loose. After tightening that screw, the knife is just like new!

The clip on my example has not caused any damage to the pocket. The only thing on the clip I might change would be creating a larger space where the cuff of the pocket fits under the clip. This would allow the knife to be clipped to the waistband more easily.
 
I also experienced the screw loosening problem on mine. Loctite should cure that though.
 
Originally posted by Steve Harvey
The compression lock works on essentially the same ramp principle as the liner lock. There should not be any axial play in the blade, and the ramp should compensate for wear.
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand, but there is also a small amount of clearance between the stop pin and the lock bar so that when the spine is pushed down on there is a bit of room for the lock bar to be pushed up.

Axial play in the open position indicates that the lock is not seating properly. Something is preventing the lock bar from sliding all the way over. Could be lack of spring pressure, or friction on the face of the support pin above the lock bar.
Click to expand...
It's lack of spring pressure coupled with the angle of the ramp. The bar isn't strong enough to push up the ramp until it wears some more. I've taken it apart and the compression bar doesn't go all the way over when let free, it stops about 70% over. I might send it in, I figure bending it out isn't such a great idea.

The funny thing with the trailing point is that the Lil'Temp's handle is very much designed for thrusting.
Click to expand...
Yes, so what's funny about the trailing point on a thrusting handle? I'm not following you.

Originally posted by roguesoul
TOTC I don't have a LP, but I know this is an excellent comparison.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

When you say the balance of the knife is weird, this is not very descriptive. IMO the balance is awesome! As you aptly point out, there is a lot of weight in the handle. This makes for knife that feels Very light. In fact, it is Very light in terms of handling and maneuverability. Think of it as a slasher's wet dream come true! Quick and agile!
Click to expand...
Yes, "weird" isn't the best choice of words, but that's the only way I know how to put it. It's just so different from any of my other folders. I don't mind the balance, but I don't love it as much as you do. Remember, balance is a preferential thing. While you might think of it as a wet-dream, others probably hate it.

My blade also loosened up. When I checked the tightness of the Torx screws, I found the screw holding the Anvil Bar was loose. After tightening that screw, the knife is just like new!
Click to expand...
Yes, that's happened to me, but that's not my current problem.
 
Hmmm… In my opinion the balance is awesome. Your opinion is you don’t mind it. Lets stick to the facts. I’ve never seen anyone say they hate it. Have you?
I’m sure your knife can be made as good as new, at no charge to you. Send it in. I’m not being critical, if something is wrong with this knife, I want to know about it.
 
Originally posted by roguesoul
Hmmm… In my opinion the balance is awesome. Your opinion is you don’t mind it. Lets stick to the facts. I’ve never seen anyone say they hate it. Have you?
Click to expand...
Lol. sorry, officer, I'll stick to the facts.
Fact: I have not seen anyone say they hate the Lil Temperance's balance
Fact: The Lil Temperance is handle-heavy
Fact: There are many people (I don't posses any factual numbers) who prefer a blade-heavy knife
Using these facts, I feel confident extrapolating that there must be people out there who would hate the balance of the Lil Temperance. It's nothing to worry about: there is no knife in existence that will please every user out there.
 
Balance is kind of meaningless on such a light knife.

On my knife, the lock bar is virtually rubbing on the "anvil pin" as it moves. The pin has to be in just the right position, or the lock doesn't work because the lock bar sticks to the anvil pin and doesn't engage the blade. This is what happened when the screws came loose on mine. The anvil pin rotated and jammed the lock bar so that the blade wouldn't lock. It was a bit worrisome until I figured out what happened.

I would have to try tweaking the lock bar myself, if I were you. I wouldn't go for 100% travel across the blade tang though, I would try for just 85 to 90%. Liner locks can get sticky if you put too much spring tension on them, and the Compression Lock might be the same, who knows.

The trailing point is just not optimized for straight, thrusting penetration is all, while the handle is designed around a saber grip. The handle was designed to thrust, while the trailing point blade was not. You see, a funny little design contradiction. Ha. :D
 
TOTC,

Excellent pic, and much appreciated. I see now how the handle fits a bit better, but I still don't see the right hand bias of the handle.

What I need to do is get one in hand, and I'm sure it would be perfectly obvious. I'll check around local knife stores and see if anyone has one in stock I can handle a bit.
 
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