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Liner lock/frame lock with hand tools?
- Thread starter Chiro75
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 24, 1999
- Messages
- 4,981
Hi Chiro
I do folders fairly often without any serious milling equipment. I will say that I absolutely would not try it wihtout a drill press, but everything else is probably a matter of time and a sense of humor.
For the locks, I use a dremel with a fine cut off wheel. Its not that difficult, I'm sure you could cut them with a jewelers saw (although on framelocks this might take forever)
Get yourself some precision ground O1 for the blade. Your best bet for starting out would probably be a liner lock, I would use .040" 410 SS for liners. You can get it for $12 a square foot and it cuts fairly easily and has a good enough memory for the locking tab. The liner lock is a little more complex cause you have to attach scales on top, but its mainly a matter of drilling a few more holes, and tapping a few more holes. The payoff is that the liners are a lot easier to cut out and the material is a lot cheaper, so you don't have as much to lose the first few times you try cutting and fitting a lock.
I would really miss my 4X36 belt and 6" disc sander as I use it for flattening everything. You can do the same thing by hand though lapping on a peice of wet dry paper on a peice of precision ground steel, or glass or something like that. The disc sander is a very easy way to sqaure up edges as well since you can adjust the work table on it, but once again you can do this with a file if your really careful.
I think you should definitely try it. Read some tutorials before hand so you have an idea what order you want to work in and be prepared for it to be very time consuming.
I do folders fairly often without any serious milling equipment. I will say that I absolutely would not try it wihtout a drill press, but everything else is probably a matter of time and a sense of humor.
For the locks, I use a dremel with a fine cut off wheel. Its not that difficult, I'm sure you could cut them with a jewelers saw (although on framelocks this might take forever)
Get yourself some precision ground O1 for the blade. Your best bet for starting out would probably be a liner lock, I would use .040" 410 SS for liners. You can get it for $12 a square foot and it cuts fairly easily and has a good enough memory for the locking tab. The liner lock is a little more complex cause you have to attach scales on top, but its mainly a matter of drilling a few more holes, and tapping a few more holes. The payoff is that the liners are a lot easier to cut out and the material is a lot cheaper, so you don't have as much to lose the first few times you try cutting and fitting a lock.
I would really miss my 4X36 belt and 6" disc sander as I use it for flattening everything. You can do the same thing by hand though lapping on a peice of wet dry paper on a peice of precision ground steel, or glass or something like that. The disc sander is a very easy way to sqaure up edges as well since you can adjust the work table on it, but once again you can do this with a file if your really careful.
I think you should definitely try it. Read some tutorials before hand so you have an idea what order you want to work in and be prepared for it to be very time consuming.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2004
- Messages
- 280
I think you should try for it. I'm a newbie, in the middle of my first fixed-blade 
, have never made a liner-lock, but as it is grinding metal, just like a fixed-blade I would go for it. I have a few limited power tools, and have been able to produce a satisfactory knife. It'll be hard cutting the profile with files/hacksaw, 
but you could do it. Just a little more sweat! I use a dremel tool with cut-off wheels, and that works pretty well, until the wheels break! 
Well, thought I might throw in my two cents. Looks like it's come more to a quarter though :footinmou Oh well. Good luck!
Forgot to add: I'm going to use a drill press for the holes in my knife, and can't really imagine trying to drill with anything else, even with a power hand drill. Those bits are so fragile... Any way, Have fun!
, have never made a liner-lock, but as it is grinding metal, just like a fixed-blade I would go for it. I have a few limited power tools, and have been able to produce a satisfactory knife. It'll be hard cutting the profile with files/hacksaw, but you could do it. Just a little more sweat! I use a dremel tool with cut-off wheels, and that works pretty well, until the wheels break! Well, thought I might throw in my two cents. Looks like it's come more to a quarter though :footinmou Oh well. Good luck!Forgot to add: I'm going to use a drill press for the holes in my knife, and can't really imagine trying to drill with anything else, even with a power hand drill. Those bits are so fragile... Any way, Have fun!
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Messages
- 32
Chiro,
I'm getting ready to attempt my first lock liner. I'm new to knife making and have made a few fixed blades, but lock liners and other folders is really my interest. Below are a few tutorials I found. Also a great book I purchased is 'The Tactical Folding Knife - A Study of the Anatomy and Construction of the Liner-Locked Folder' by Bob Terzoula. I'm reading it for a second time before I start my first folder.
I don't have a good grinder or other "knife shop" tools, but I do have access to a good drill press and a 1" grinder that is good for nothing but rough grinding. I've had good luck with files and sandpaper on glass,.. though it takes a lot longer. But I'm not making them to sell,.. having fun and getting experiance so I can really enjoy the day I get my KMG.
Below are a few good tutorials I found. You've probably seen these but just in case you haven't.
Tutorial by Tom Anderson
http://www.knivesby.com/Anderson1.html
Tutorial by Kit Carson
http://www.knivesby.com/Kit-Carsons-folder-Lock.html
I liked this tutorial because it gave drill sizes with reamer sizes and details I didn't find other places.
Good luck with your knife! I'm getting ready to start on my first lock liner as soon as I get the materials.
Kraig
www.sedergraphics.com
I'm getting ready to attempt my first lock liner. I'm new to knife making and have made a few fixed blades, but lock liners and other folders is really my interest. Below are a few tutorials I found. Also a great book I purchased is 'The Tactical Folding Knife - A Study of the Anatomy and Construction of the Liner-Locked Folder' by Bob Terzoula. I'm reading it for a second time before I start my first folder.
I don't have a good grinder or other "knife shop" tools, but I do have access to a good drill press and a 1" grinder that is good for nothing but rough grinding. I've had good luck with files and sandpaper on glass,.. though it takes a lot longer. But I'm not making them to sell,.. having fun and getting experiance so I can really enjoy the day I get my KMG.
Below are a few good tutorials I found. You've probably seen these but just in case you haven't.
Tutorial by Tom Anderson
http://www.knivesby.com/Anderson1.html
Tutorial by Kit Carson
http://www.knivesby.com/Kit-Carsons-folder-Lock.html
I liked this tutorial because it gave drill sizes with reamer sizes and details I didn't find other places.
Good luck with your knife! I'm getting ready to start on my first lock liner as soon as I get the materials.
Kraig
www.sedergraphics.com
- Joined
- Nov 24, 1999
- Messages
- 4,981
I forgot to add, I've been meaning to do a little bit of a write up on making folders without a lot of equipment, but I never have the time. Feel free to email me if you run into any problems, or need an idea on how go about doing something.
There are a lot of great tutorials out there, but most of them show how stuff is done with machine tools and can kind of leave you scratching your head on how to do without. Its important to look through them though as they give you a good understanding the mechanics you want, and the order you want to work on the parts in.
There are a lot of great tutorials out there, but most of them show how stuff is done with machine tools and can kind of leave you scratching your head on how to do without. Its important to look through them though as they give you a good understanding the mechanics you want, and the order you want to work on the parts in.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2000
- Messages
- 2,468
I would say that the one piece of equipment that you really need is a drill press. Otherwise your holes will not be straight and true no matter what you do. And with a drill press and some Dremel Cut off wheels you'll be good to go on the lock. You don't even need a cross slide vise to do the lock. Just clamp the frame to a piece of aluminum channel stock so it at 90 degrees to your Dremel wheel and slowly guide your piece into it.
Best bet is to buy the equipment Steve. You obviously enjoy making these things so why not just drop the $5k and you'll be all set........for a month or two! 
Best bet is to buy the equipment Steve. You obviously enjoy making these things so why not just drop the $5k and you'll be all set........for a month or two!
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 211
Instead of a jeweler's saw, you might also look for something called a "fret saw." They use the same kind of blades as jeweler's saws, but are much stiffer, have deeper throats and allow you to put the blade under more tension. Since you're not working with soft precious metals, the extra tension and stiffness will help keep you from breaking blades every 30 seconds.
Garrett Wade sells a really nice one with a cast aluminum body that is particularly beefy. (You'll want the finest-toothed blades you can find, too.) You could go the dremel route, but I prefer the control of hand tools in lieu of a full-fledged milling machine.
Do get a drill press, though. And a piece of float glass or a granite surface plate (Grizzly has them cheap) to lap your parts on.
-Allin
Garrett Wade sells a really nice one with a cast aluminum body that is particularly beefy. (You'll want the finest-toothed blades you can find, too.) You could go the dremel route, but I prefer the control of hand tools in lieu of a full-fledged milling machine.
Do get a drill press, though. And a piece of float glass or a granite surface plate (Grizzly has them cheap) to lap your parts on.
-Allin
- Joined
- Feb 4, 1999
- Messages
- 5,786
Well, luckily I have a drill press that makes somewhat reasonably squared-up holes. I'm in the process of making my first friction folder and looking at it I'm thinking I could quite possibly still turn it into a liner lock. I guess I'd need some way of installing one of those microscopic little balls into it, too, though. I dunno. I started the project a month ago and haven't touched it since, so we'll see what I think when I get back to it. Now I have to worry about KITH, not futzing around with totally unfamiliar ground!
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2004
- Messages
- 280
For the ball bearing, all you need is a detent hole, and a drill press works for that. Somethin I learned from The Tactical Folding Knife. I think He said How deep it needs to be, but I've forgotten. You just drill a little indention in the lock, and pound the ball in with a ball peen hammer.
Brian
Brian
- Joined
- Nov 24, 1999
- Messages
- 4,981
I'll be honest, I don't use a detent ball, never have. I'm sure its not as difficult to put in as it looks. I've read all the tips and tricks and I'm sure I could do it, I just don't see the point. Maybe it means I make crappy knives but mine don't just flop open of their own accord. And I've carried them through worse than most people will (like having a bitchy 2 year old mare buck around and plant me on my head in the middle of the arena 
)
Its not that they are hard to open, they're not gritty or stiff. Its just that if you make the locking tab strong enough it applies plenty of friction to keep the knife closed.
I will add that I keep pivots fairly tight and don't use teflon washers or anything either. The framelock I EDC is smooth enough that the blade will drop halfway closed under its own weight when you release the lock, but with the lock pushing on it you have to really flip it hard to make it open.
I haven't sold any folders yet, and I would obviously make it a point of telling people there is no detent. But I carry my own folders everyday, and there are people out there I've given knives to that are carrying them too and it hasn't been a problem.
So don't take this as me saying that you shouldn't use a detent. I'm just saying that in my experience you don't ALWAYS needs them. Depends on the knife. If its super slicked up with bushings and washers and has a light lock spring, its probably an issue. But on the kind of knives I'm making it isn't.
)Its not that they are hard to open, they're not gritty or stiff. Its just that if you make the locking tab strong enough it applies plenty of friction to keep the knife closed.
I will add that I keep pivots fairly tight and don't use teflon washers or anything either. The framelock I EDC is smooth enough that the blade will drop halfway closed under its own weight when you release the lock, but with the lock pushing on it you have to really flip it hard to make it open.
I haven't sold any folders yet, and I would obviously make it a point of telling people there is no detent. But I carry my own folders everyday, and there are people out there I've given knives to that are carrying them too and it hasn't been a problem.
So don't take this as me saying that you shouldn't use a detent. I'm just saying that in my experience you don't ALWAYS needs them. Depends on the knife. If its super slicked up with bushings and washers and has a light lock spring, its probably an issue. But on the kind of knives I'm making it isn't.