liner lock VS lock back is either better???

B

Backwoods_VT

Joined
Mar 27, 2006
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I was just wondering if either was better. I just got a spyderco delica with a lock back, its the first ive had in years. Most of my benchmades have a liner lock. anyone have an opinion?
 
i think they both are geat if they are made right and both can be dangerous if they are made wrong and cheap. i guess my advice would be to check out any lock type before you buy it and make sure it is from reputable maker because loosing a finger aint worth the money you might save by buying a cheap knife!,,thats my opinion,,VWB.
 
Both my son and nephew have had problems with liner locks. And both were quality, big name knives.:( I've never personally owned one, but I'd be a bit chary about them now.

The lockback, OTOH, appears to be a very strong system if well made from quality steel.

My current EDC is an axis lock. Benchmade 710 D2. While this probably isn't quite as strong as a lockback, it seems like it would be much stronger than a liner lock.

OTOH, I'm neither a physicist nor a mechanical engineer, so I could very well be all wet!:o

:D Ben :D
 
sorry but that isnt so. ive seen certain lockbacks (they sell them on a tv knife show) collapse and close shut under the slightest pressure. i also have seen liner locks do the same. like i said they both are very strong and dependable if the are made right and both can be dangerous if not. thats my opinion anyway,,VWB.
 
lol, I just posted a thread shwoing the "knife show" and a cheap linerlock failing on the show...within the 1st 5 seconds of the show to be exact, lol, of course no one said anythgin about it...

Anyway, I find that liner locks are just fine for everyday use...I have been using them for many years and never had a problem with any brand that was worth buying...Same goes for lockbacks...If I had to guess I would say on cheapo knives, lockbacks are stronger than liner locks...Just my opinion...
 
Backwoods_VT said:
I was just wondering if either was better. I just got a spyderco delica with a lock back, its the first ive had in years. Most of my benchmades have a liner lock. anyone have an opinion?
Click to expand...

Like the others have said, neither is better than the other. They can both be strong, reliable locks if put together properly.

At the moment, I have a bunch of lock-backs, a few Axis locks, and one frame lock. I'm not avoiding liners, they just don't appeal to me as much as the others.
 
In my opinion...

The lock-back is better than a liner-lock all other things being equal.

Here's why I think so...

The liner-lock relies upon only a ball-detent to keep the blade closed.
All it takes is about 1/32" of movment to overcome the ball-detent resistance and allow the blade to open.
I've had a liner-lock open inside my pocket and it is not a good feeling.
A lock-back has constant spring tension keeping the blade closed until the blade is move a considerable distance.


Liner-locks are bias toward one hand or the other.
Liner-locks that are easy to use for righties are often harder to use for lefties.
Lock-backs are truely ambidexterous.


The lock-up on a liner-lock is much more affected by hard use and hard openings than a lock-back.
In fact, I have snapped liner-locks open with enough force and I needed a screwdriver to unlock it...it wedged that tight.
And not cheap low quality knives either.
I've never had that problem with a lockback.

I've personally never had a lock-back ever fail the spine-whack-test.
I've had quite a few liner-locks fail.
It has shaken my confidence in liner-locks so much that I am extremely reluctant to buy another one.
Especially when there are so many better locks on the market.


Lockbacks have been going strong and reliable for over forty years.
It's definitely a time proven design.
 
I prefer lockbacks for various reasons.

-In my experience, liner locks develop play much more easily
-I find lockbacks (especially Al Mar and Spyderco style front locks) much easier to close
-Opening is smoother on a lockback due to no detent and they hold the blade closed better
-They can take more abuse in general. I've had the liner on a liner lock move over a noticable amount from tapping food off my knife on a cutting board, while my lockbacks don't budge at all during such use
-With a lockback you don't have to worry about the tang moving all the way over and then developing play. Also, some very poorly designed liner locks have liners thin enough to fit in between the blade tang and handle scales, which can mean the lock getting damaged and the blade folding on your hands

That being said, I'll still use a liner lock knife if it's made well. My Wharcom, Leek and Military all seem well made enough for me to carry. I do wonder about the lock life on the Leek though since it's moved a noticable amount since I got it.
 
For clarification: Could someone please explain how to perform a "spine whack
test". I've heard of this before but I do not know exactly what it refers to. I own several folders and some autos as well and I think this knowledge might be useful to myself and others. I sometimes worry about a folder snapping shut on me while in use. Few things would suck worse than losing a finger in such an accident. As always, any info is much appreciated. Also, how do frame locks compare to liner locks and lockbacks? Thanks. - Dt
 
Framelocks rate a little higher for me than liner locks, but still have many of the same problems due to a similar design. It's definately an improvement though. One issue they have that liner locks don't is if you use your knives clipless like me, they can be difficult to close one-handed because your hand is trying to hold onto the handle and push the lockbar, but by holding on you work against the lockbar opening.

To spinewhack a folder, just turn it upside down in your hand and smack to spine of the blade on a piece of wood or something. Keep your hand clear of the blade's path of movement in case it fails. A spinewhack to a liner lock knife will often make it travel across the tang and 'wear' prematurely, which is one thing I dislike about that lock style. I agree with AllenC that there are many other lock designs that are just plain better. Lockback, compression, axis etc.
 
Neither is inherently better. Personally, I find liner/framelock knives a little easier to work one-handed, but that's just me. But I have no problem with lockbacks whatsoever.

Now for my anecdotes. I find linerlock failure to be more predictable. Generally you can see why they fail, and sometimes predict how and under what circumstances. Lockback failure is more unpredictable, and when it happens, it's usually sudden and surprising. All that said, the only linerlock (more like a framelock) failure I've had was with a really crappy imported knife. And the only lockback failure(s) I've had were with what should have been decent American knives, made by an otherwise well reputed Pennsylvania based company. The framelock was clearly a crappy design. The lockback should have been OK. But after the failure, and the exact same failure on the replacement, I concluded it was most likely a manufacturing defect isolated to this particular model, and not representative of lockbacks in general.
 
Shecky, could you detail the lock failures you experienced a little more? I'm just curious.
 
Contrarian opinion here... I've switched back mostly to well made liner locks.

I enjoy my Byrd and mni Pika lockbacks, but I"ve had others not work with the tiniest bit of pocket lint in them, most notably the Delica 4.

My current Avalanche, former Microtech Socom and other liner locks were bullet-proof.

I've read the complaints in the past, and have enormous respect here for Joe Talmadge and others, and agree that their criticisms are entirely legitimate, but for what I do with knives, I'm comfortable with a well-made liner lock.
 
....but I"ve had others not work with the tiniest bit of pocket lint in them, most notably the Delica 4.
Click to expand...
I'm not calling you a liar....but I guess it just depends upon what your definition of "tiniest bit of pocket lint".
In my experience, there's no way a Delica 4 would fail from a "tiniest" bit of pocket-lint.
 
I can only relate my experience. I"ve had 5 Delicas since 1992, including the plastic pocket clipped G1 or G2, ats55, aus8, and two VG10's. Clipped them to my right front jeans pocket as usual for all of them. Only the Delica 4 repeatedly jammed. Not bashing Spyderco, so don't flame me, I'm a diehard Spydie fan. But this has been my experience.
 
Vivi said:
Shecky, could you detail the lock failures you experienced a little more? I'm just curious.
Click to expand...

The framelock failure was on one of those skeletonized handle folders where the locking bar is part of the gripping area and the blade is essentially on a single ended pivot. The handle was basically one sided and when closed, the edge rested in a small niche. With the locking bar so exposed, any heavy gripping or torsion of the handle is liable to unlock the blade.

The lockback failures happened when I had my index finger pressing on the back of the blade to make a fine cut, when lifting the knife off the material, the blade unlocked and closed about halfway just from finger pressure exerted while gripping the handle. At first, I thought perhaps I was somehow gripping too tightly and accidentally pressed the lock release. But no, I was able to repeatedly defeat the lock without touching the release at all or without significant pressure on the handle anywhere. It took about as much force to close the blade as it does with a Douk Douk, except the breaking point was more sudden, and there was no spring resistance or halfway stop. The problem was not that the lock was defeated, as any lock will fail under the right circumstances. But rather that it was defeated with so little effort and so unexpectedly. It's replacement (same make/model) suffered from the exact same performance.
 
allenC said:
I'm not calling you a liar....but I guess it just depends upon what your definition of "tiniest bit of pocket lint".
In my experience, there's no way a Delica 4 would fail from a "tiniest" bit of pocket-lint.
Click to expand...

I've had pocket lint cause some concern with my Native. Not a failure, but a noticeably insecure lockup. That it was noticeable, first by the lack of a positive "click", and secondly by the lockbar not being flush with the blade or back of the handle, was a good thing and possibly averted an accident. I've never had that happen with another lockback, but I attribute that to chance rather than some inherent characteristic of the Native.

One thing that needs to be kept in mind is that despite all our anecdotes, failures do happen at all levels. Cheap knives sometimes fail and expensive knives sometimes fail. I seem to recall some problems with the Dodo, which by anecdote, was a rock solid performer, until it wasn't. Point is, failures are often isolated to specific issues. Overly broad judgments are not worth much.
 
This is a very informative thread. Forgive my inexperience, but what if any experience does anyone have with plunge type button locks such as those which are commonly found on autos and also a limited number of M/A folders.
Any failures? I'm asking more in reference to decent quality production knives
as I know most cheap POS knife locks fail regularly and should never be relied upon at all. JMHO. Also, any experience with failures of what would normally be considered high quality framelocks such as CRK Sebenzas or folders made by Strider?
 
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