liner locks and boston......

A

Angelus1781

Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
702
Been reading the recent thread about liner lock failure, and that they are more prone to it. The only liner lock I own is a buck/mayo northshore. Many of you have seen, and its odd cause the liner lock goes almost to the opposite side. Where you have to press down hard to unlock it. Also, what does "white knuckle" mean? Are liner locks just bad in general, or just some brands. Will my northshore fail on me?


Also, I maybe heading to boston at some point and was thinking of just taking my opinel. Not quite clear on the laws there, but would their be a problem just carrying that around? Suggestions on a knife I can legally carry there?
 
The strength of a liner or frame lock depends on 2 things: The amount of contact between the lock and the blade, and the strength (material/thickness) of the liner/frame. Assuming the same material, a framelock will probably be the stronger because it'll be thicker. Thicker means more contact surface, and more strength.

The one disadvantage frame and liner locks, regardless of quality or price, is that eventually it'll wear out. The repeated engaging/disengaging of the lock will wear down the liner/frame, and you'll get blade play. This happens quicker with linerlocks, obviously, because they're thinner.

As for failure, this mostly has to do with strength and thickness. A think, weak liner can buckle or slip off the contact with the blade. It's also more prone to accidental disengaging.
 
The limit is 2.5 inches in boston.
Even a regular size Swiss army knife is technically illegal in Boston.
Grr... I travel there a lot, what a stupid law.
Anyway, I would not open or belt carry something longer than 2.5 inches.
Most LEOs would not stop you for a SAK, but the fact that they _Could_ if they wanted to just bugs me.

Also, if you go to a game or some other venues, be prepared to go back to the car if they are checking...

Do a search on Boston in the knife laws and check this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281642&highlight=boston
 
Bring a small slipjoint with you, for a change of pace from the big tactical folders, a trapper or stockman or Laguiole.

"White knuckling" refers to the tension placed on a knife handle and lock by gripping very hard in a tense or hard work situation. If you grip a liner lock knife really hard, your grip may inadvertently pull the liner to the right -- to the release position -- especially when twisting the knife in hard material. Liner locks are especially prone to failure when twisted.

Notice that the corresponding strong grip on a framelock will pin the lock in the fixed position, making it more safe. The handle slab of a liner lock prevents this augmentation.

But liner locks are not all that bad, espcially if you're using them for careful cutting, not combat or heavy utility use. A small pocket knife with a liner lock that is not going to get "white knuckled" or twisted into a piece of wood is going to hold up fine.
 
The strength and reliability of a liner lock has very little to do actually with sheer thickness, and, every framelock I have ever seen was heavily relieved at its base anyway, making it, in essence, the same thickness as a liner lock is in the first place. What matters most, assuming you have at least a minimum thickness is the geometry of the 2 parts, the relative angles between the liner and blade tang, I will trust a .050" liner lock over the thickest .100 lock if the thinner has the better geometry.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but people often make the mistake of thinking thickness means a better lock, when in reality, the thickness is of secondary importance.

Framleocks have a little more reliability also because as you squeeze them, they tend to lock tighter, where some liner locks actually get pushed into disengagement if the handle is squeezed.
 
For what it's worth, I once asked a couple of Mass state police officers if there was any problem carrying my AFCK around, and they didn't have a problem with it. I carried it every time I went into Boston and never had a problem (didn't know that the Boston laws differed from the rest of the state at the time, or I wouldn't have).
 
In my own experiements with liner locks I make I have found a happy medium that enables them to be quite strong but not so bad as to move by gripping the handle or twisting. My locks are stout. You wouldn't want to be opening and closing them all day because they require a good stiff push to move them sideways. I use a minimum .050 thickness Titanium or Stainless lock thickness and have thought about moving that up to a .060 thickness.

I don't see any advantage in strength to a frame lock over a uniform thickness liner lock. It doesn't matter if the frame lock is twice as thick as the liner over 3/4 or more of the surface area if it is ground thin to a .040 thickness at it's base to make it easy to move sideways. That thin spot is the weakest point and where it will fail if and when it does fail on you. The only real advantage to a frame lock thicker at the contact point where the lock meets the blade is that you have more surface area there to keep contact should the lock begin to slide to the side under pressure. Some of the 'finer' highly polished knives I've owned have done this to me because the blade was ground at a wrong angle to keep the lock in place under pressure. As a result pressure moved the lock sideways and eventually it opened itself up and the lock failed. This happened on very expensive folders I have. I personally think roughness where the blade and lock meet helps to hold it in place vs highly polished slippery surfaces based on my own tests.
 
I live about 30 miles outside of Boston. Outside of Boston itself, you can pretty much carry any sized knife (folder or fixed) that you wish. In Boston there is a 2.5" limit, but I would not worry about it. When I am in town I carry any pocket clip folder I want, and it is all OK, providing you don't act weird.
 
OK...everytime I see a Boston thread I have to check it out...naturally because I'm from Boston. First off...the legal limit is 2.5 in the city. Outside of the city such as the cities and towns that make up Greater Boston the knife laws are different. Some of the cities and towns have knife ordinances. Even with that said...there's nothing to worry about. When you come to Boston do you plan on commiting any crimes with a knife? Stabbing, robbing etc etc? If you're not...don't sweat it! Carry what you want...if you don't break any major laws and don't start flashing your knife around for everyone to see then you have NOTHING to worry about. Does this 2.5 law keep me from carrying anything else? NO! I have even carried fixed blades out in the city! Just keep em low profile and don't break any laws...and you'll have NOTHING to worry about. BPD has better things to do then bust someones balls for carrying a pocket knife. If you need any more info about the fine city of Boston just email me! :)
 
Thats a good thing, thanks tons for the information.


I do have an Endura. But that would be in my bag, at the hotel. Mostly I'd be carrying an opinel. Endura is kind of pointy and nasty looking. Wouldn't be doing much cutting of anything but nice to have an option. Crimes? not unless the fashion police show up, and doesn't like my socks.

I figuared they must have better things to do. Besides, They look at were I'm from...."Ohhhhhh....you're just a sea bumpkin, and doesn't know any better"
 
A few advantages of the framelock:

1- There is no bending along the length of the lockbar. One failure mode of the thin (0.050") linerlock is that spine-directed pressure causes bowing of the lockbar. This changes the angle of pressure of the tang mate face against the lock, and sometimes can cause it to slip. Framelocks are generally thick enough that this bowing doesn't happen.

2- There is more surface area in contact at the mate face area. Sometimes this provides more friction, which can help reduce failure.

3- One hotly debated benefit with the framelock is that your index finger generally curls around the lock. Some people believe that your finger can help push the lockbar in place in the case that it starts to slip.

Me, I trust framelocks much more over linerlocks. However, I've had 0.090" linerlocks fail in light and whippy and heavy and continuous spine pressure.

It all depends on the lock geometry at the mate face (angle of incidence and attack) where the relief is cut or the bend is made, how wide the lockbar is... and any number of other possibilities.

-j
 
klattman said:
The limit is 2.5 inches in boston.
Even a regular size Swiss army knife is technically illegal in Boston.
Grr... I travel there a lot, what a stupid law.
Anyway, I would not open or belt carry something longer than 2.5 inches.
Most LEOs would not stop you for a SAK, but the fact that they _Could_ if they wanted to just bugs me.
Click to expand...

NO JOKE. My brother moved to Nantucket a year ago -- even bought a house there with his wife -- and when he left Florida he had to leave like five guns that belonged to him with me, because he isn't allowed by the "commonwealth of Massachusetts" to have them! Cradle of Democracy my ass! Cradle of goddamned FASCISM.

Is this 2.5" limit for Boston, or is it a state-wide thing and affecting my brother on Nantucket, too?

And would you believe, the idiot still keeps sending me emails trying to convince me that I should vote for KERRY!! He had to give up his f***in' guns, and still maintains that Democrats aren't about taking them away!!!!!
:mad:

-Jeffrey
 
peacefuljeffrey said:
Is this 2.5" limit for Boston, or is it a state-wide thing and affecting my brother on Nantucket, too?


-Jeffrey
Click to expand...

Jeffrey: Per my post above, the 2.5" limit is for Boston proper. Various towns have different laws. However, outside of Boston, in the rural areas, you can carry any size blade you want, folder or fixed.
 
jayharley said:
Jeffrey: Per my post above, the 2.5" limit is for Boston proper. Various towns have different laws. However, outside of Boston, in the rural areas, you can carry any size blade you want, folder or fixed.
Click to expand...
I haven't lived in the "Cradle of Fascism"for about ten years now but when I did(grew up in Saugus)the neighboring town of Lynn had enacted an ordinance against carrying knives on a belt.This was supposed to be directed against the local chapter of a well-known outlaw motorcycle group and worked about as well as shoveling excrement against the tide.Just my .02.
Ray
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top