Liners? We ain't got no liners. We don't need no steekin' liners... (or do we?)

[Hashishiin]

How necessary do you think liners are? Consider intention of use, weight, blade length, longevity, play, personal preference, technological advances, , aftermarket scales, temperature effect, or whatever you want to when answering.

If you'd have asked me a year ago, "Yeah, I absolutely always need liners on a serious pocketknife unless the body is metal, etc" but I didn't really know anything. I have in front of me a K390 wharncliffe Dragonfly, a Rex 45 Native 5 LW, a G-2 Stainless Clip-It, and a Buck 110 Slim Select. All of these are knives are linerless, and all are ones that I take absolutely seriously and wouldn't really hesitate to use for a lot of things or have as my "main knife". I do, in fact. I must say, I have not used any knife more than the K390 Dragonfly this week.

I do not have the Pac-Salt series, but I haven't heard complaints. People use those hard, I know that for a fact. Used to be liners weren't even considered nessecary on a knife like the Civilian, though I certainly do not mind the extra strength there with the newer models/Matriarch 2.

I know I have some stuff that I like, but don't need. I LIKE knowing that I can jab my Cold Steel in a tree and step on it like a ladder to catch an apple. But, for my cutting tasks? In SoCal? I don't think I need liners. I was cleaning the inside of the K390 D-Fly when I noticed it was linerless, did not know it before, and was happy, because there's less stuff to rust inside and the inside of that is slightly harder to reach. I know there is the overbuilt titanium craze, too. I feel like the Shaman is the closest I'll ever get to a Strider-type knife However since I can't carry a fixed blade basically, I have a Shaman. That one, I like liners on, especially cause of the Micarta (I think this is a myth, though, micarta may be stronger than we give it credit for, same goes for FRN. G10, carbon fiber, is plastic, too...)

I understand feeling your knife flex isn't the most ideal thing when you squeeze it, but the ones I have are really sturdy. I understand heavy wear, or temperature, could be an issue for some. Wonder what the PM2 LW will be like. I could put a Sage 5 LW and a Stretch in the microwave at full blast and see what comes out. But yeah, you need to see some steenking liners? Or are you good?

In terms of technological advances, I mean like how a linerless FRN knife today might be better than a linerless... say, Tufram, the rubber stuff, model, from the past. Though, I've got to say, I feel like the G-2 Clipit is strong, and it snaps open with authority few other lockbacks do.

EDIT: Just thought about it, my Dodos are linerless too, makes sense. I wish the little stainless bit tended towards the bottom though, as I did always find the butt of the Dodo to be rather strong.

 

[Fixall]

I like liners because I DON'T like free spinning pivots. Without nice, solid liners, what stops the pivot from eventually rounding out the FRN/G10/CF/Micarta. I very rarely purchase a knife without liners.

 

[Hashishiin]

I like liners because I DON'T like free spinning pivots. Without nice, solid liners, what stops the pivot from eventually rounding out the FRN/G10/CF/Micarta. I very rarely purchase a knife without liners.

That is true, I don't like that happening either. But, and I mean this with all respect because your assertion is absolutely to be considered if a knife is marketed to really last, to be passed down through generations, which I personally think might be too much to ask of your basic, say, Pac Salt Endura, but not of, say, a USA made Native 5 LW. That's more than double a Buck 110, so that should absolutely be an expectation... but, in reality, how much of that is happening? How many hard fishing, hard using, Youtube-testing, sane-sober real testing, people out there, are there with FRN or G10 ground down?

Some will say, send it in for new scales if this is an eventuality. Then, what if it's discontinued? Anyways, not a bad argument for liners.

 

[MolokaiRider]

Well, if you are using a liner lock, you will need some fashion of liner.

Some knives have partial liners for the locking mechanism.

Saying that, there are many good folders on the market that do not use any liners, and work great.

 

[Billy The Hungry]

95% of the time my knife can be linerless. But on occasion, I may need to ask a little more of my knife than I really should. For those times, I appreciate the added strength. FRN by itself flexes way too much to make me feel comfortable.

With that said, I still want the new Stretch 2 XL

 

[Fixall]

That is true, I don't like that happening either. But, and I mean this with all respect because your assertion is absolutely to be considered if a knife is marketed to really last, to be passed down through generations, which I personally think might be too much to ask of your basic, say, Pac Salt Endura, but not of, say, a USA made Native 5 LW. That's more than double a Buck 110, so that should absolutely be an expectation... but, in reality, how much of that is happening? How many hard fishing, hard using, Youtube-testing, sane-sober real testing, people out there, are there with FRN or G10 ground down?

Some will say, send it in for new scales if this is an eventuality. Then, what if it's discontinued? Anyways, not a bad argument for liners.

For me, it's not about keeping a knife for decades... Or even day to day durability. I work in a warehouse and put my knives through a lot. Even so, most of my linerless knives are more than capable of handling the load.

Rather, it's the fact that I like to mod almost all of my knives (especially so with Spydercos) and probably disassemble/reassemble them much more frequently than the average user. I've had less than stellar experiences modding and disassembling/reassembling a Dragonfly, an Urban, and a Para 3 LW. All linerless Spydercos.

Heck, I went so far as to add liners to this Cru-Wear Native 5. The African Blackwood scales wouldn't have really been possible otherwise.

 

[Billy The Hungry]

For me, it's not about keeping a knife for decades... Or even day to day durability. I work in a warehouse and put my knives through a lot. Even so, most of my linerless knives are more than capable of handling the load.

Rather, it's the fact that I like to mod almost all of my knives (especially so with Spydercos) and probably disassemble/reassemble them much more frequently than the average user. I've had less than stellar experiences modding and disassembling/reassembling a Dragonfly, an Urban, and a Para 3 LW. All linerless Spydercos.

Heck, I went so far as to add liners to this Cru-Wear Native 5. The African Blackwood scales wouldn't have really been possible otherwise.

Did you polish those pocket clips or did you buy them like that from the mothership?

 

[yablanowitz]

How necessary do you think liners are? Consider intention of use, weight, blade length, longevity, play, personal preference, technological advances, , aftermarket scales, temperature effect, or whatever you want to when answering.

If you'd have asked me a year ago, "Yeah, I absolutely always need liners on a serious pocketknife unless the body is metal, etc" but I didn't really know anything. I have in front of me a K390 wharncliffe Dragonfly, a Rex 45 Native 5 LW, a G-2 Stainless Clip-It, and a Buck 110 Slim Select. All of these are knives are linerless, and all are ones that I take absolutely seriously and wouldn't really hesitate to use for a lot of things or have as my "main knife". I do, in fact. I must say, I have not used any knife more than the K390 Dragonfly this week.

I do not have the Pac-Salt series, but I haven't heard complaints. People use those hard, I know that for a fact. Used to be liners weren't even considered nessecary on a knife like the Civilian, though I certainly do not mind the extra strength there with the newer models/Matriarch 2.

I know I have some stuff that I like, but don't need. I LIKE knowing that I can jab my Cold Steel in a tree and step on it like a ladder to catch an apple. But, for my cutting tasks? In SoCal? I don't think I need liners. I was cleaning the inside of the K390 D-Fly when I noticed it was linerless, did not know it before, and was happy, because there's less stuff to rust inside and the inside of that is slightly harder to reach. I know there is the overbuilt titanium craze, too. I feel like the Shaman is the closest I'll ever get to a Strider-type knife However since I can't carry a fixed blade basically, I have a Shaman. That one, I like liners on, especially cause of the Micarta (I think this is a myth, though, micarta may be stronger than we give it credit for, same goes for FRN. G10, carbon fiber, is plastic, too...)

I understand feeling your knife flex isn't the most ideal thing when you squeeze it, but the ones I have are really sturdy. I understand heavy wear, or temperature, could be an issue for some. Wonder what the PM2 LW will be like. I could put a Sage 5 LW and a Stretch in the microwave at full blast and see what comes out. But yeah, you need to see some steenking liners? Or are you good?

In terms of technological advances, I mean like how a linerless FRN knife today might be better than a linerless... say, Tufram, the rubber stuff, model, from the past. Though, I've got to say, I feel like the G-2 Clipit is strong, and it snaps open with authority few other lockbacks do.

EDIT: Just thought about it, my Dodos are linerless too, makes sense. I wish the little stainless bit tended towards the bottom though, as I did always find the butt of the Dodo to be rather strong.

A couple of points. Tufram is basically a form of titanium electroplate over a base metal, usually aircraft grade aluminum. The rubber stuff is Kraton, and there just for traction. You don't really need liners when the whole handle is metal.

Micarta is quite strong, but it is not entirely dimensionally stable. They made linerless Micarta handles back in the 90s and found out that changes in temperature, humidity and altitude can combine to cause warpage. Micarta also doesn't hold fine threads very well, so clip screws tend to strip their holes. Those are the kind of things you have to take into account when you have to cover the warranty out of your pocket.

Sal told me he likes liners, but if the market wants linerless, then he'll give us linerless.

 

[Wandering_About]

The answer for me is that it depends on the overall knife design. I find especially that the longer FRN handles are rather flexy, although the designs do seem to be quite successful in the market despite that. On a small knife like a Native or UK Penknife, linerless makes a lot of sense to me.

I like the linerless G10 on the Native Chief. With the G10 and a substantial backspacer it's a solid knife.

On the whole, I still prefer Spyderco's G10 to FRN. Most of the G10 models that I like and use often have liners. So that is surely a factor on my preferences for liners.

Some of the linerless knives do pretty good on action feel, but on the whole knives with liners seem to be smoother. I'm not one who makes a massive deal about action, but it's still part of the overall package and is something to be considered.

 

[Fixall]

Did you polish those pocket clips or did you buy them like that from the mothership?

Bought them like that direct from Spyderco.

I’m not a fan of coated pocket clips, so I thought it made sense to stock up.

 

[Billy The Hungry]

Bought them like that direct from Spyderco.

I’m not a fan of coated pocket clips, so I thought it made sense to stock up.

I bought a pocket clip from them, but they sent me the wrong one. I just polished my factory ones.

 

[fielder]

Liners everyday please. I know people argue that they aren't necessary, but I definitely prefer them.

 

[ferider]

The only liner-less implementation that’s OK for me is in the Manix 2LW.

I don’t like a pivot to sit in plastic. The whole LW craze feels cheap to me.

LW ? Because you safe 20g or so ? Just skip dessert once and you’ll save more

 

[DocJD]

All else being equal , liner-less designs generally save some size and weight (and maybe money ) at the cost of strength , durability , and reliability .

It's physics !

 

[yablanowitz]

Tell that to my linerless Endura from the 90s.

 

[PeteyTwoPointOne]

Linerless works really well on the original Salt series. It's really liberating just to be able to hose down a knife after sweating my a$$ off and not worrying about internal corrosion from the world's most saltiest sweat <mine>. I've corroded a bike frame in pieces, no kidding.

Pic of the world's finest biking/hiking/running IWB knife-- that is until Sal greenlights an H1 or LC200N linerless Matriarch 2.1 :