Lion head butt cap

J

Johan van Zyl

Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Messages
372
Hi guys! This Christmas I was fortunate to receive an oldish 15 inch Indian-made lion head khukuri as a present. Whether or not this is a genuine khukuri or a tourist item is of little concern to me, as it is high in my esteem as a present from a loved one. Yet the khukuri collector in me would love to know more about this knife.

My khuk has a bolster and butt cap of brass of a very light yellow colour. The blade does not have the word "India" on it, nor any kind of engraved or punched design. There are two fullered grooves on the blade, as well as the sword of Shiva consisting of a simple groove. The cho is somewhat strange, in that the centre protrusion is split in the middle, like a little snake tongue. The handle (rat-tail tang) is of buffalo horn, having the correct traditional grooves, with a neat circular pattern inlaid. The sheath is well made, with hatchwork. There are the pouches for the karda and chakmak, which, sadly, are missing. My khuk seems to be quite well made overall, for which I am thankful. The family member who gave it to me, bought it from a gentleman who brought it from India about three years ago. He, in turn, bought it from a private person (not shop) in India who claimed it was not a tourist item.

The information I have to date (right or wrong) is that all lion head khukuris (i.e. those having a lion head motif on the butt cap) are made for the tourist market. The lion theme is reminiscent of the Lion of Ashoka emblem of the Indian government. Yet no lion head khukuris were ever made for issue to Indian regiments - only for the tourist market. Seems they started making these lion head khuks since 1920. The age and quality of a lion head khuk can be approximately judged by the fineness of the lion head on the butt cap. The better the features on the lion face, the older the khuk, as later khuks of this type tended to deteriorate in quality.

Please could any forum member corroborate my finding, or correct me if I'm wrong about this khuk. A picture of a good quality lion head khuk in someone's collection would be very much appreciated! I'm very willing to learn more about these lion head khuks. (Interesting to note that if you search "lion head khukuri" or "tourist khukuri" on the net, there are no hits.) Thanks a lot, guys!
:) :)
 
Any chance of pix.
Would really like to see this.

Originally posted by Johan van Zyl
The information I have to date (right or wrong)
Click to expand...
Any references you can provide?
Always interested in new info sources to compare & contrast.


I would -guess-, based on general knowledge of the world,
that an old tourist piece stands a better chance of
having a good blade than a more recent production.

Some of those may have been standard blades 'prettied up'
for the tourist market after being shaped & sharpened.
That might track with your comment about the quality
of the lion-head.

The collectors here can comment on whether they have seen this.
 
Johan, you've been gone much too long!!!!

No references to help you with, but I'm pretty sure that John Powell himself has said a little while back that not all of the lion's head khukuris were tourist models.
Actually it seems to me that John posted a pic of a well made lion's head khuk a little while back, but then my memory ain't what it once was either.:rolleyes: :grumpy: :D

You might do a search using the "Himilayan Imports Forum" only to save time with John Powell as the poster and Lion's Head Khukuri as the subject item and see what turns up.:)
 
Not all "lion's head" models are touristy, but the good ones are few and far between. They can be identified by the type grip shown in the picture and are usually kothimoras. This model is at the GM and I apologize for the poor photos. YVSA is right (your memory is intact my friend). These were posted a while back.
lion.jpg
 
A very warm good morning to Dean, Yvsa, John and Keith who have replied to my query to date. Best wishes for the new year to all of you! John, thanks a lot for the pix! Sorry, I won't be able to post a picture of my Christmas khuk - not soon anyway. Judging from the signs of ageing on my khuk, I suppose it could be circa 1950 or thereabouts. I do also have a kagas katne-type, most horrible lion head khuk in my collection, complete with what seems to be a chromed blade (yuch), and an awful punched out floral design and the word INDIA on the blade. The lion head motif is not very easily recognisable as such. It also seems to be quite old. What is noticeable in the extreme, is the similarity in the hatchwork pattern on the sheath, when compared to my Christmas khuk. I am tempted to say the same maker crafted both sheaths, or at least worked from the same design. Yet the Christmas khuk is very pleasing to the eye, and nice to handle, and I have not resisted showing it to my friends. In fact, I'm quite happy with it.

After reading your kind comments, I would still like to hear from other knowledgeable members, some of whom might even own a khuk such as I have described, and can post other pix. Berk must be out there, waiting to pounce. There must be thousands of lion head khuks sold over many decades. I will also keep searching, as Yvsa has suggested. :D :D :D

John, I don't know how far you are with your book, but I dearly want a copy when you are done.
 
Originally posted by Johan van Zyl
the Christmas khuk is very pleasing to the eye, and nice to handle, and I have not resisted showing it to my friends.
In fact, I'm quite happy with it.
Click to expand...
If it makes you happy then it's a good khuk.
Whether it's a user is secondary to this.

You mention having an example of "the most horrible";
then you need examples of better and best to handle,
repeatedly if possible.
Both older & modern.
Then you quickly develop a feel/sight
for which side of the fence
a new khuk falls on.
 
JDP --
Maybe a chapter on tourist / junk khuks.
People need/want that info too; especially
if they have enough interest to buy the book.
 
(sigh) My first was a lion-head purchased from an "Army Surplus" store in Columbus, Ohio. Very thin chrome job. I then saw a "real" khuk at a knife show. Kept the "lion" as a lesson. Kardas - 2 - were such a joke, virtually "tin can" steel that came already loose in tiny handles. Same cross-hatchering on sheath.
 
" Kept the "lion" as a lesson."


I've seen 'em bad.
And I've seen 'em worse.
And I've seen 'em even worse than that.

Got one of each to show off in comparison to the good ones.
 
DD, I will probably make mention of "tourist" knives, but won't devote a chapter to it or fakes, repros, etc. My goal is to discuss and illustrate classics in a historical context. New kukris don't interest me but I will have a very brief chapter on them. Chapter 7 may also be incorporated somewhere else.

While most of the "lions" are junk they do represent a huge amount of kukris available. I have 3 only one of which has any quality.

As of now these are the chapters I am working on:
1. The Kukri, origins & evolution
2. Traditional Kukris
3. Kothimoras
4. Military Kukris
5. About Grips, Gods & Garudas
6. Kardas, Chakmaks and Kaltis
7. Kauri or Cho?
8. The Trousse & Other Unique Kukris
9. Koras
10. New Kukris
11. maps
12. nomenclature/glossary
references & bibliography
 
If the lion looks like a lion chances are the khukuri is a pretty good one. If the lion looks like a pig look out.
 
Originally posted by John Powell
historical context.
Click to expand...
I'm sure it's come up before,
but what are the oldest 'tourist' khuks
that you have seen or heard of.
 
i got one on ebay for $5 that looks just like that. mine has a bunch of stuff etched into the blade . when i got it , it looked like someone took a grinder to it and it had the chrome chipping off. cleaned up okay though . mine must have been farely new because it looks like "tourist" material. it'll chop up 2x's all though. seems tough enough
 
Guys, sounds like you did manage to open the pix I attached. Dean, Berk wrote some time ago that they started making these lion head khuks in the 1920's.

Mine LOOKS like it came out of the 1950's or thereabouts, but Uncle gave me the fright of my life when I read what he wrote about the ability of Indian craftsmen to artificially age a new khuk.

Interestingly, the very fact that I was able to find a picture of a lion head khuk looking EXACTLY like mine, tells me that there is a basic design, created by some enterprising individual, that is being followed in the making of hundreds upon hundreds of tourist lion head khuks. (I believe the "I.C.E." stamp on the khuk in the picture was probably applied by an owner to personalise his purchase.) I would like to be spirited to the place in India where this specific design of lion head khuk is being produced over all these years. There will probably be dozens of workshops doing the same design, perhaps in a specific city. I'd like to see the guys doing the forgework, the grips, the sheaths. I'd then compare what I have seen with the footage on my "Gurkha Steel" video. I'll bet if you took some of those guys, and lifted the time restraint from them, and offered a bit more money for their effort, they would be able to craft a most EXCELLENT khukuri, using the very same design.

O, for the money to sally forth on a project to India to research this most interesting subject. Why hasn't the research staff at National Geographic taken such a topic upon them yet....?

Personally, I quite enjoy the lion face on my Christmas khuk's buttcap. It seems to radiate such a lot of history. (Maybe if it was a bad 'un and looked like a pig, I'd think otherwise.) :) :) :)
 
If having it pleases you, and makes you feel good, and you just like it anyhow, then it's a good one ( at least for you ) by my standards.

:) ;) :p
 
Johan,
These are turned out by the 1000 at Dehradun in India as you righty supposition by 100s of factorys & workshops.


I would guess they would also be made in other towns & cities with large steel industries as well.

Spiral
 
Yeah, Spiral, but the moment you mention "large steel industries" the question comes to mind whether these lion head blades are manufactured through hammer (drop) forging (i.e. by means of steelmills) or traditionally forged like in a small workshop using a forge and manual labour, wielding hammers. I possess a khukuri (looking just like the WWII K45), which was undoubtedly manufactured not too long ago at Dehradun by the Steelcrafts firm. I believe the process was highly mechanised. To me, that makes a difference. What ya think? :p
 
Johan, In Dehradun, you find both types of industry!

a FIRM THAT EMPLOYS 5 NEXT TO A FIRM THAT EMPLOYS 500!

Woops hit caps lock , not shouting!

Spiral
 
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