Liquid tempering

L

Lt.Col.Vortex

Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
752
Could I submerge my blade in an oil (say canola), bring that oil up to temperature and temper it that way? Or should I just stick to leaving it in an oven at the predetermined temperature? I am working with 1095 (file) steel...if that helps at all.
 
You REALLY need to read the stickys!
If not, you're going to get yourself hurt, or burn your house down.
 
Deep fat fryers run at about 325 to 350 and if hotter than that the oil starts to smoke which means it is near ignition point. They use a SPECIAL salt solution for that kind of tempering and usually after doing the high temp in another SPECIAL salt solution and SPECIAL setup.

Like Bill said read more before you jump to stuff.
 
Lt.Col.Vortex said:
Could I submerge my blade in an oil (say canola), bring that oil up to temperature and temper it that way? Or should I just stick to leaving it in an oven at the predetermined temperature? I am working with 1095 (file) steel...if that helps at all.
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I have done it. The good thing is that you can control temperature very well with a candy thermometer and oil heats up the blade faster than air. I did have a small fire (inconsequential. I did it outside in some "unburnable" place). There is some danger involved. It will probably mess up the oil because at 400F it will degrade. It will smoke and smell. I guess it i not a good idea to use that oil again for quenching. I once tempered a few small cutting tools I made for a lathe, so the total amount of oil was small (one cup). For larger blades it is less practical.
 
Stickies, I do need to read them, but ay in particular I should read first???????

I know that heating oils to such temperatures is VERY dangerous, but I do want to try this method. The reason being because I do not have access to an electric or gas oven to do this with. I have been cooking over an open fire for the past 8 years now so I'm pretty proficient with fire and maintaining temperatures. I will be doing this outside, so I wont burn much other than my hair. But trust me, I am reading as much as I can on liquid tempering.

I supposedly only need to maintain 400-450 degrees F for a good temper ( this is for a bush craft knife, so perfection is not necessarily needed). Cheap-ish canola oil has a smoke temp of 400 degrees F, and more refined oils have higher temps. Safety is always #1, but I do intend to do this.
 
Lt.Col.Vortex said:
The reason being because I do not have access to an electric or gas oven to do this with.
I have been cooking over an open fire for the past 8 years now so I'm pretty proficient with fire and maintaining temperatures.

I will be doing this outside
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Living under a bridge ?


I'd use a toaster oven from goodwill $5
and a pan of sand- to hold temps stable.

If you have no electricity at all then
I'd much rather use the pan of sand on top of the wood fire and a candy thermometer over using oil.
 
Lt.Col.Vortex said:
Safety is always #1, but I do intend to do this.
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A gallon or 2 of cooking oil near its flashpoint on an open wood fire, what could possibly go wrong?

As you get older and wiser you look at what might go wrong and the possibility of that happening. When you are younger you think that will never happen and are surprised at how often it does.

You might burn a lot more than some hair if HOT oil ignites and it getting spilled into the fire would be extremely bad. Hot oil near its flashpoint is a lot different than cold oil on a fire. Vegetable oil has about the same amount of BTUs as gasoline and hot it won't act all that much different especially if you spill it. Most of the cooking oil fires that burnt houses down didn't start with even a 1/4 cup of hot oil.

PLEASE BE CAREFUL.
 
I have seen a pot of deep frying oil at heat spill into a fire pit... VERY dangerous! The oil splashed up and ran out of the pit. It was crazy. One of my friends acted quickly and tackled the burning pot-tender to the ground. We spent the rest of the night in the hospital emergency... AND our fish never did get cooked!
 
Im pretty new to knife making and I often use Blade Forums to ask questions to other makers that have more experience then I do. I have done much the same as most everyone else....AS ANY BOOKS AS I CAN GET MY HANDS ON!!! I also read nearly all the posts on this site in hopes that Ill learn something I wasnt even looking for. My point on this is that there is a wealth of knowledge out there and a great little knife community that is all to willing to help others succeed when getting started. I value the information that is given to me...whith that said....I would listen to the advise given. There are a number of better and safer ways to temper your blade. Just my thoughts.
 
Sir,
You have been given good advice. However, if you do choose this route, please film this as we always need new Darwin Award's contestants.
 
Living under a bridge ?
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Dont judge my way of living and I wont judge yours.

I hadn't thought of using sand, hhmm, I might try that. All I need is a heat stabilizer, something to help keep the heat constant while being over an ever changing flame temperature.

And yes I am all to familiar with flash off of various oils. Do any of you know how you treat a cast iron pan or pot?? I've done that wrong more than once...I thank stupidity and luck that I still have my eyes after once incident.

I've read where people suggest candy thermometers for tempering, I dont get this. I've used several candy thermometers (while making candy of all things :) ), and all the ones I've used only go up to 400F as a max but 350F is most common. I have to temper at 400-450 right?? (i'm thinking around 425).

But on the off chance now that I do go with oil tempering, I will film it for you guys. I do like the sand idea, thanks 1234567890
.
 
Lt.Col.Vortex said:
Dont judge my way of living and I wont judge yours.

I hadn't thought of using sand, hhmm, I might try that. All I need is a heat stabilizer, something to help keep the heat constant while being over an ever changing flame temperature.

And yes I am all to familiar with flash off of various oils. Do any of you know how you treat a cast iron pan or pot?? I've done that wrong more than once...I thank stupidity and luck that I still have my eyes after once incident.

I've read where people suggest candy thermometers for tempering, I dont get this. I've used several candy thermometers (while making candy of all things :) ), and all the ones I've used only go up to 400F as a max but 350F is most common. I have to temper at 400-450 right?? (i'm thinking around 425).

But on the off chance now that I do go with oil tempering, I will film it for you guys. I do like the sand idea, thanks 1234567890
.
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We don't expect someone with internet access to not have access to utilities.



Candy thermometers may have limited range, but the digital probe type are plastic and will melt.
You can also try an oven thermometer for greater range, but I'm really sceptical about their accuracy.

I didn't come up with the sand idea on my own, try reading all the old blacksmithing texts on internet archive.
If you're living off the grid neo tribal like that that should appeal to you.
 
Thats just my trouble, finding old text on such topics. 98% of people today use "proper" ( I should say 'up to date' equipment) for doing such task, and I dont blame them. An electronically controlled gas furnace is MUCH easier to use than coal or wood. Trying to find information and people who do it 'the old way' is getting harder. But I'm sure there is a thread somewhere on Bladeforums that details what I need and how its done.

Oh and thanks for all the warning and tips thus far. If all else fails you all can say, "I told you so". And I'll send you my cast or eye patch so you can sigh it :)
 
Lt.Col.Vortex said:
Thats just my trouble, finding old text on such topics. 98% of people today use "proper" ( I should say 'up to date' equipment) for doing such task, and I dont blame them. An electronically controlled gas furnace is MUCH easier to use than coal or wood. Trying to find information and people who do it 'the old way' is getting harder. But I'm sure there is a thread somewhere on Bladeforums that details what I need and how its done.

Oh and thanks for all the warning and tips thus far. If all else fails you all can say, "I told you so". And I'll send you my cast or eye patch so you can sigh it :)
Click to expand...



I meant this site

http://archive.org/details/cu31924003588450
https://ia700305.us.archive.org/12/items/forgepracticeele00baco/forgepracticeele00baco.pdf



http://archive.org/details/cu31924003588450
https://ia700409.us.archive.org/27/items/cu31924003588450/cu31924003588450.pdf

There are hundreds more.



http://archive.org/search.php?query...D mediatype:texts AND subject:"Blacksmithing"
 
another option would be to get a series of temp sticks...
http://www.tempil.com/products/tempilstik-original/

you can buy several and mark them in series so that you can use them much like a thermometer... they're simple to use and easy to see when they melt... and actually quite accurate... might be a more simple way of keeping track of your temps...

they can be had at any welding supply store...
 
You can use your cast iron skillet as a temperature stabilizer. Fill it with sand.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
You can use your cast iron skillet as a temperature stabilizer. Fill it with sand.
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I've got a few junk ones lying around for that, but I wouldn't recommend it to just anyone. Cast iron will scorch at these templates and time duration without some sort of oil.
 
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