Loaded Question

blgoode

blgoode

Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
7,189
Okay,
I have a customer that wants a user knife. Shaped for chopping and digging.
He doesnt want a stainless blade and wants it to be relativley care free in that he doesnt want to have to oil it and keep it as cared for as say 0-1.

What steel do you recomend?
I was thinking D2 or even 1080 or 1075. I would like something I can HT myself.
Thanks in advance.
 
And I want a Hummer that gets 40 MPG.If he doesn't want stainless,and he doesn't want to take care of it - He will end up with a shovel.Garden tools are made from 1080 and 1095 often.This kind of steel when blued is reasonably rust resistant.D-2 is semi-stainless and would be the best choice,but you will have to have it heat treated like stainless.Since the knife will be abused and not cared for,I would use 1095,or 5160. - SA
 
Brian, I would recommend 5160 also. Put a good high gloss finish on it. I've used my big chopper and abused it, got it wet, left it unattended to and it seems to hold up pretty good. A few very small surface rust spots i've had to clean.
Scott
 
FWIW, I've used 1084 exclusively and had very few problems with rusting. I do a differential heat treat and etch the blade. Occasionally I'll see some surface spotting but you hit it with steel wool and no problems. The keychain knife I carry that I made fell in snow the other day and a few days later I took the knife out to use. It had a wet stain on it, but no rust. I wiped it off a bit and it was no worse the wear. Ugly, but no rust. I don't treat them with anything. I've been pretty happy with 1084, so I assume 1080 would do the job, too, although it's not a totally care-free knife. And, heat treating couldn't be any easier.
 
You could always ask your customer how he feels about a parkerized blade. you can get the solution from brownells, they also have the blackener.
 
There have been a few times I've told folks I didn't think I could make the knife they wanted, when their specs were just not something I wanted to warrant forever. Knifemakers tend to treat blades better than most simply because they respect them; some people don't have that sense of responsibility with tools. Put a wet blade in a sheath and it can be a mess in less than 24 hours, even stainless.
 
THanks guys - Looks like I'll just have to discuss and go from there. I too have had stainless rust when left wet.
 
If he's going to chop and dig with it maybe CPM 3V and do some surface treatment for rust protection.
 
Make it out of plastic. People existing in a fantasy world shouldn't play with real knives. :rolleyes:
 
spray on epoxy coating; you bake it on in the oven.... or better yet phosphate (commonly known as parkerizing) sure worked for Kabar et. al. in WWII. I use the zinc phosphate ( a really pretty gray color) used back during the war as opposed to the cristaline black look obtained useing manganese phosephate; that's for instance, what's on an M-16.
 
Consider putting a DLC coating on it. Also, if he plans on digging with it, i wouldn't give him any kind of warranty against his abuse no matter what the knife is made of. Remember, a 5 year old can ruin ANYTHING. :D
 
The best thing to do is let him know your limitations and what he should expect from one of your knives. Let him know what you will cover as far as repair and that knives aren't a do all tool. It's great to satisfy a customer but if you don't feel comfortable with what you're doing it makes for a bad situation.
Scott
 
Thanks fellas'. I'll let him know what I am capable of and we will go from there.
You guys have helped alot!
 
Brian, make it out of 5160 and finish to 400grit then etch with FC I had a kitchen knife that I could not get to rust done that way. Gib
 
Razorback - Knives said:
The best thing to do is let him know your limitations and what he should expect from one of your knives. Let him know what you will cover as far as repair and that knives aren't a do all tool. It's great to satisfy a customer but if you don't feel comfortable with what you're doing it makes for a bad situation.
Scott
Click to expand...


Exactly. Well said. There are limitations to materials and what can be done with them, and what makers know how to do with them... until we can find ways to expand those limits. :D Customers basically expect makers to educate them on the realities of "what is the best" and why. They make their requests, or demands, (customer demand), and then hope the makers can produce. The makers then come up with what they can. The customer then either loves it, or, suggests, or whines, cries, begs, moans, etc., and/or demands something better... like something that will dig, chop, stay sharp, and not rust... even though it's not "stainless".

Ah, maybe suggest to him you make his knife out of availium instead of unobtainium because titanium just doesn't hold an edge? When he asks you; "What is availium?" That is your cue to tell him what YOU think might work best for him for his particular needs. Because "form follows function" you might ask him more questions about what he wants to do with his knife and how he expects it to perform. The more you know about what he wants, the more you can make him something truly custom to his needs, and is'nt that what "custom"'s about?

Try to keep it entertaining as well as educational, and as he uses your "solution" to his needs he will think about all you have done for him and truly be thankful... or... well... curse you... :D

Seriously though, if you do your best, do your homework, and make a really good product, your customers will love you, tell their friends, and come back for more.
 
blgoode said:
is this the parkerising solution?
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=9155&title=AMER-LENE+"PARKERIZING"
Click to expand...
That's the stuff. Brownells has a free "how to" sheet to go with their parkerizing solution.. (you can order one without purchase. See the bottom of the page.) This method combined with the spray on/bake on coating anvilring mentioned should provide excellent protection (except for the edge itself of course ;) ).

Gun Kote would be the way to go. They recomend parkerizing first as well. You don't have to but I think that would be best. I have seen a couple guys have not so great results not using the park finish first. Mind you that was on their 1911 pistols. I have seen it used on AR-15 mags with great success though.

I was thinking of going this route, for protection and looks :cool: , on my upcoming first knife attempt (what...me worried... :barf: ).

_________________________________________________
I'm a Canadian with a gun... AND I'M KEEPING IT!!!
www.canadiangunnutz.com
 
I too think Gun Kote might be a decent solution. I'm about to build myself a little carry knife with GK treatment to do a bit of harsh testing; I'll report back in a couple of months how it goes. It's almost spring and time for a new yard knife! :D

Brian have you and your customer decided what to do? Mitch's epoxy (powder coating?) idea sounds like a reasonable alternative too, and should be much simpler to do at home than GK. I've seen some production powder coated knives that held up very well under fairly extreme use. That might be a good sideline to build into your services too, depending how well it actually works. One thing I like about these coatings is all the color choices - camouflaged knives sell like crazy around here. Chris Reeve adds $25 to the price of a knife for a few lines of a second color of GK. :D I don't know why you couldn't do that with powder too.

Caswell seems like a good place to start.

Should I admit my ulterior motive for suggesting this? Sure, I'd like to know whether home workshop powder coating is as good as the production methods. If you don't try it, or if someone doesn't chime in here with their own experiences, I'm going to have to give that a shot one of these days. But I'm perfectly happy learning from others! ;)
 
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