Lock dependability?

[mmarkh]

I see a lot of threads on this subject. What do these people do to make their locks fail. I have knives with, liner locks, back locks, frame locks and axis locks. When I am cutting pressure is on the edge not the spine. If you use a knife for what it is designed to do any quality lock will be fine. Knives are made to cut.I'm not into spending a lot of hard earned money trying to destroy my knives. Believe me, if you want to break a knife, you can. Sorry for the vent.

 

[StretchNM]

I see a lot of threads on this subject. What do these people do to make their locks fail. I have knives with, liner locks, back locks, frame locks and axis locks. When I am cutting pressure is on the edge not the spine. If you use a knife for what it is designed to do any quality lock will be fine. Knives are made to cut.I'm not into spending a lot of hard earned money trying to destroy my knives. Believe me, if you want to break a knife, you can. Sorry for the vent.

Very good. I agree.

People open their blades and start pounding away on the spine, trying to make the lock fail. When it does, many will then refuse to carry or buy more of that kind of knife. As another test, users could try several full-force thrust stabs into their favorite oak tree.....until the lock fails. All of these thing are fun, happy, and wholesome activites.

There should be little or no pressure on the spine, unless batoning or using pressure to make a controlled slice or cut. But.....knife owners love to put pressure on the spine. It must be fun.....

Any quality lock will be fine until someone, during "testing", whacks away at it until it's not.

If people didn;t want to break their knives, they wouldn;t hack and whack at the spine and stab away at oak trees and old car doors (while testing, of course). So....I might be missing something. Maybe I'm missing some of the fun by not trying to destroy my knives.

I've got an old BM-Emerson liner lock. It's done alot of stuff and it's never failed. But then, I've never "tested" it. I'm missing out on some fun!!

((( )))

 

[Ludwig]

You make a good point there mmarkh. I have never had any locks fail on me either (knock on wood), and I don't go out of my way to make them do so.

But then again, a lot of the users who do have lock failures during tests are performing these tough tests to see what the knife can handle, so that they don't have the lock fail while they are actually using it in the future.

You put any lock under enough pressure and they all eventually fail.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Some testing is a good idea. I got a great little knife years ago, a Kershaw Talon. It worked fine, using the edge for cutting.

One day I read about spine-whacking, so I tried it. It failed every time. That liner lock was not holding. So I tried a couple of hard, flicking openings. This jammed the lock so tightly, it was hard to release ... but since then, it works properly.

Abusive, destructive testing makes NO sense. ANY testing that does not stress the kind of work the knife was designed for is irrelevent. But there are people here who will clamp a knife stiffly into a vise and hammer it.

I think they're really testing the hammer.

 

[allenC]

I have knives with, liner locks, back locks, frame locks and axis locks. When I am cutting pressure is on the edge not the spine. If you use a knife for what it is designed to do any quality lock will be fine.

So, if you always have pressure on the edge and not the spine, then why bother with a locking folder at all?
Why not just use a slip-joint?



The answer is simple: accidents happen and humans make mistakes.
A locking folder is more forgiving than a non-locking folder...but only if it's reliable and strong.

 

[hardheart]

zip ties, hose, rope, tape, etc. I put pressure on the spine a lot, it's why I haven't carried a slippie in years. I don't always have the room to put the knife just where I want it, or to move the material I need to cut out of the way of something else.

 

[Vivi]

Any piercing cuts I'm more comfortable using a locking folder or fixed blade. I can poke holes in a canteloupe or water bottle all day with a SAK, but I'd be more worried about cutting myself than if I used a lockback Spyderco.

 

[knarfeng]

Any piercing cuts I'm more comfortable using a locking folder or fixed blade. I can poke holes in a canteloupe or water bottle all day with a SAK, but I'd be more worried about cutting myself than if I used a lockback Spyderco.

Yeah, but Vivi, why is there a need to poke such holes in the first place?

I like locking blades. They're fun. Never had one fail.

Used a slippie for years. Still do sometimes. Cut zip ties. Trim PVC pipe. Trim the bushes. Never had a blade close on my hand. (But I admit I like a lockback for more robust cutting.)

I think I agree with Esav. Some mild testing is reasonable. Massive testing of an EDC is not. And most reasonable of all is to treat the knife like it could close on your hand if you put pressure on the wrong part, even with a locking blade.

 

[mmarkh]

So, if you always have pressure on the edge and not the spine, then why bother with a locking folder at all?
Why not just use a slip-joint?



The answer is simple: accidents happen and humans make mistakes.
A locking folder is more forgiving than a non-locking folder...but only if it's reliable and strong.

Believe me, I'd have a lot more money if I didn't have any slipjoints. That's my point. I see a lot of people slamming a liner lock when if made to the quality I expect (such as the Al Mar Sere) you should not have any problems. Even with locks, being human, I have cut myself a few times. I like SHARP KNIVES! It comes with the territory.

 

[mmarkh]

Yeah, but Vivi, why is there a need to poke such holes in the first place?

I like locking blades. They're fun. Never had one fail.

Used a slippie for years. Still do sometimes. Cut zip ties. Trim PVC pipe. Trim the bushes. Never had a blade close on my hand. (But I admit I like a lockback for more robust cutting.)

I think I agree with Esav. Some mild testing is reasonable. Massive testing of an EDC is not. And most reasonable of all is to treat the knife like it could close on your hand if you put pressure on the wrong part, even with a locking blade.

I'm not against testing. I just think most quality knives have locks that will hold up under most "cutting" situations.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Yeah, but Vivi, why is there a need to poke such holes in the first place?

I couldn't tell you how many times I've used knives for drilling holes, and that goes back to using the awl on my camp knives when I was a kid. I've poked holes into slats of old wood to see how sturdy they were before breaking them up. I made holes in leather belts.

 

[Siggyhk]

I've had some emerson spyderco and benchmade liner lock knives, and I never had one fail. The were all fine knives. But, since I've discovered axis locks and frame locks in perticular, I feel that I can push my knives to a whole nother level. People always talk about "no folder is = to a fixed blade". But the better lock you have, the more fixed blade-like your folder becomes. I have pryed hard plastic up off of a vans bumper putting pressure in every direction of the blade with a frame lock (cqc-12). I didn't even consider that thought of it hurting me. I simply wouldn't of attempted such a feat with a liner lock. I wasn't prying the bumper for a test by the way.

 

[SIFU1A]

to check the lock just lightly tap the back of the open blade on the carpet/your hand/etc to make sure the lock doesnt slip, no need to do it hard enough to damage the knife lol.

i wont carry a knife that fails that test because i have had a lock fail and cut the piss outta my hand and dont intend to do that again.

 

[Blop]

Well, i have carried a folder over eight years with no problems until it failed in one of those tests.

So at first i would agree.

On the other hand the simple BM Griptilian withstand the same test without any mark of wear.

Why shouldn´t i look for that level of strength?

Why should i bear a folder of SnG size or that kind (Trident, Manix, 710...) without a really strong lock?

Considering slip joints, there is a difference between a SAK, wich have smooth going blades and some kind of "Farmers knives" with back springs, so strong its hard to open and close. A SAK closes pretty easy.

For a working knife you don´t NEED a locking folder, there are alternatives.

Any time i read about lock tests it came to the martial art theme.

The weapon thing seems to be the thing that leads to that tests.

But the most important thing is: It is possible to get a very strong lock with silky going blades, so why should i settle for less?

 

[StretchNM]

I was being a little sarcastic and I agree that some testing probably doesn;t hurt. In fact, it stands to reason it helps.

.....as long as the testing is done in conformance with what the knife would reasonably be expected to do. I mean, if you held a liner lock on your knee, and gave it a few whacks with the palm of your hand, that seems reasonable to me. But hacking and whacking away until it fails doesn;t seem reasonable.

When I'm looking at prying something apart, I'm usually looking for some other tool than my knife for doing it. If my knife is all I have, then the next question is: What is the emergent need to pry on this thing? Can it wait until I have the proper (or more appropriate) tool? Like most of you, I've been carrying knives since I was a kid. I really thought I was pretty active and adventuresome, but after hearing about all the testing done on folder locks ( to somehow simulate real-world knife use), I guess I was pretty passive. I might have said "Honey, hand me that stick, will you?" when what I obviously should've done was taken out my $120 BM-975 and pried away. Now THAT would've been a test.

"I can't get this $&%! hub off the trailer. It's stuck and I can;t find my puller"..... "Here, use my BM"

My day is now ruined.

 

[Siggyhk]

You make a good point considering that same cqc-12 has now been reground to a new tip after losing about a 1/4 inch. (But that wasn't the bumper.) I guess it just makes me feel more confiedent and comfortable to have what I feel is the best lock I can have with in reason. SOmething that's better than I'll hopefully need. I've had and loved knives with liner locks. But when I use a frame lock, I can just about forget it even has a lock. I wish butterfly knives were more apropriate, bucause of the way the "lock" up. But...