Lock lug - 25 and Umnum?

gull wing

gull wing

Joined
May 4, 2002
Messages
2,536
The Umnum has an over bend limiter, the 25 doesn't. How do they accomplish over bend on the 25?
 
Hello gull wing, the Over Travel Stop found on the Later versions of the Umnumzaan was added after some owners of the Zaan who did not understand that the Umnumzaan opens with a different motion than the Sebenza.. and were bending the lock bar out in an effort to make the knife easier to open. Thus over extending the lock bar and then complaining to CRK that there was something wrong with the knife. IMHO and many others the OTS is not needed but a few people ruined it for everyone. If they had followed the instructions that came with the knife they would have understood the proper technique for opening the Umnumzaan.
All the best, Dave

gull wing said:
The Umnum has an over bend limiter, the 25 doesn't. How do they accomplish over bend on the 25?
Click to expand...
 
Dave is absolutely correct. I didn't understand what the issue was as I didn't have any issues opening either of my Zann's. But it just takes a quick second to read the info and you are golden. Yes Dave you read that right; Zann's, I have more than one...:D You infected me.
 
mikepapa1 said:
some owners of the Zaan who did not understand that the Umnumzaan opens with a different motion than the Sebenza.. and were bending the lock bar out in an effort to make the knife easier to open.
Click to expand...

As one of the folks you are discussing...allow me to interrupt, as I am a survivor of all of this.
I've had both pre and post LBS Zaans. My problem was NEVER the opening of the knife, but rather the closing of the blade. After all, the lockbar is NOT involved at all in opening the Zaan.
The problem, as I experienced it, was only in closing the blade. There was not enough thumb access allowed in order to depress the old style lockbar.
Many owners did their own fix with a Dremel until Chris fixed it with the newer model. He steepened the radius on the titanium scale so that the thumb had enough access to press the lockbar away from the blade tang, allowing it to be closed. This was exactly what some troubled owners were doing at home with their Dremel tool...not a hard fix at all.
I was going nuts with the old-style Zaan, as I didn't have enough thumb strength (access to lockbar?) to close the blade. Please note that I wasn't alone in this. In my posts at the time, it appeared to me that perhaps at least 10% of owners were using two hands to close the blade.
THEN, my wise friend NYEFMAKER came along and rescued me, telling and showing me the difference in design. On his advice, I traded in my old design for the LBS Zaan, and my problem was solved.
And, friends, guess what folder I carry EVERY DAY!
And with all of this, I do agree that the LBS button was NEVER needed...on any CRK model, and was NOT part of the fix at all. The LBS button really just solved a problem that didn't need to exist. After all, if one can press the lockbar out of the way with his thumb, there is ZERO need to overbend the lockbar.
:) Sonnydaze
Note the difference in the "thumb access" on the slab in the photos of the two different Zaan designs, in the second photo. The newer design is nearest... Note the change in the radius on the titanium presentation scale. This made ALL of the difference.


Sonnydaze
 
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Nice pictures, and that is something that I noticed as well. I have a newer one, and I was looking at my friends older version. I went to close it and recognized the difference immediately. I much prefer the newer lock access.
 
Sonnydaze said:
As one of the folks you are discussing...allow me to interrupt, as I am a survivor of all of this.
I've had both pre and post LBS Zaans. My problem was NEVER the opening of the knife, but rather the closing of the blade. After all, the lockbar is NOT involved at all in opening the Zaan.
The problem, as I experienced it, was only in closing the blade. There was not enough thumb access allowed in order to depress the old style lockbar.
Many owners did their own fix with a Dremel until Chris fixed it with the newer model. He steepened the radius on the titanium scale so that the thumb had enough access to press the lockbar away from the blade tang, allowing it to be closed. This was exactly what some troubled owners were doing at home with their Dremel tool...not a hard fix at all.
I was going nuts with the old-style Zaan, as I didn't have enough thumb strength (access to lockbar?) to close the blade. Please note that I wasn't alone in this. In my posts at the time, it appeared to me that perhaps at least 10% of owners were using two hands to close the blade.
THEN, my wise friend NYEFMAKER came along and rescued me, telling and showing me the difference in design. On his advice, I traded in my old design for the LBS Zaan, and my problem was solved.
And, friends, guess what folder I carry EVERY DAY!
And with all of this, I do agree that the LBS button was NEVER needed...on any CRK model, and was NOT part of the fix at all. The LBS button really just solved a problem that didn't need to exist. After all, if one can press the lockbar out of the way with his thumb, there is ZERO need to overbend the lockbar.
:) Sonnydaze
Note the difference in the "thumb access" on the slab in the photos of the two different Zaan designs, in the second photo. The newer design is nearest... Note the change in the radius on the titanium presentation scale. This made ALL of the difference.


Sonnydaze
Click to expand...

Some very interesting and thought provoking information Sonnydaze!! However these are two different issues IMHO..
It is true that on the original design the profile of the lock bar did not provide sufficient purchase for some when closing the Umnumzaan.. however in an effort to elevate the problem real are perceived (I am sure it was real for many) the design of the lock bar was changed slightly on the Type 3 versions which came into production in the fall of 2010. Long before the introduction of the Over Travel Disk.. making the Knife easier to close. The Over Travel disk introduced later was a solution again, to a problem some folks perceived as the detent on the knife being to strong and making it too hard to open.. Some decided that they would solve the problem by over extending the lock bar in an effort to reduce the detent pressure. Thus reducing the tension of the lock bar and making the detent too lose. After several knives were returned for service CRK decided that it would be better to just add the UGLY and totally unnecessary Over Travel Disk rather than argue the simple fact that the owners did not follow the instructions provided with the knife. Thus saving time and money making warranty repairs that were in fact caused by the owners themselves. So, in closing another long and I am sure very boring post I will just say that we are both correct and some what in agreement.. I think.. and that is of course the OTD is totally unnecessary and IMHO plain ugly. And the change to the profile of the lock bar in an effort to make the Umnumzaan more user friendly although also not necessary for most, did make the knife easier to open so was most likely an "improvement" to an already stellar design. But again.. one has nothing to do with the other as the change to the lock bar profile was made long before the addition of the OTD.
All the best, Dave

A quote from Chris Reeve:
· Any of our folding knives, assembled correctly, will open and close smoothly. Remember that they are intended as robust, working knives and they will not feel the same as many other folding knives. When opening a Sebenza or Mnandi, use a sideways, sweeping motion with the side of your thumb against the lug. The Umnumzaan opens by pushing the lug forward, parallel with the handle, with the top of your thumb.
 
I had a Zaan made in 09' and never had a problem closing it. I have 1 made in 10' now. Both are/were very easy for me to close.

IMO the OTD is an unnecessary eyesore. I dislike it so much that I think the OTD really ruins the look of a couple of great knives. I won't buy a CRK with the OTD.

The OCD is a part that shouldn't even have to be on the knife. I'd like to get a WC Startac Without the OTD, but they're had to find.
 
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It took me a few days to get the motion of disengaging the lock on my 09 zaan, after that I have no problem opening and closing the knife at all.
 
to mikepapa1:
Thanks for the info. Here is your relevant quote...the design of the lock bar was changed slightly on the Type 3 versions which came into production in the fall of 2010. Long before the introduction of the Over Travel Disk.. making the Knife easier to close. The Over Travel disk introduced later was a solution again, to a problem some folks perceived as the detent on the knife being to strong and making it too hard to open..

I had an early Zaan and never experienced the problem of deploying the blade, but closing it was an impossibility for me to accomplish...with one hand. It seems clear to me, that your historical knowledge of the Zaan's "development" far exceeds my own. I guess I was half-right, half-wrong and half missing-in-action.
Thanks for the history lesson Dave.
I stand corrected.
best regards,
Don
 
Sonnydaze said:
to mikepapa1:
Thanks for the info. Here is your relevant quote...the design of the lock bar was changed slightly on the Type 3 versions which came into production in the fall of 2010. Long before the introduction of the Over Travel Disk.. making the Knife easier to close. The Over Travel disk introduced later was a solution again, to a problem some folks perceived as the detent on the knife being to strong and making it too hard to open..

I had an early Zaan and never experienced the problem of deploying the blade, but closing it was an impossibility for me to accomplish...with one hand. It seems clear to me, that your historical knowledge of the Zaan's "development" far exceeds my own. I guess I was half-right, half-wrong and half missing-in-action.
Thanks for the history lesson Dave.
I stand corrected.
best regards,
Don
Click to expand...
Not at all Don, I don't think you were wrong at all.. we were perhaps both talking about two different issues with the early Umnumzaan. The first issue being real for you and many others, the lack of purchase on the early lock bar. The second which I am happy to see we both are in agreement with.. which is that the OTD (sounds like an illness) is an unnecessary addition to the Umnumzaan or any other Chris Reeve Knife. I understand the principle and design of the LBS on Hinderer folding knives.. and that it has been adopted in one form or another on other folding knives using Chris Reeve's Integral Lock system. But the OTD on later examples of the Umnumzaan is not a Lock Bar Stabilizer.. but merely an Ugly disk that keeps people from rendering the lock bar unserviceable out of ignorance. Although I do suppose that if you are in a hurry and wearing gloves it does serve a purpose. Hmmm.. I guess it could be a necessary improvement in a few cases... It still detracts from the unique beauty of the knife IMHO... I do apologize if this and my earlier post was in anyway offensive or if I sounded arrogant in my response, that was not at all my intention. I am somewhat of.. ok an arrogant ass when it comes to my favorite Chris Reeve Knife.. the Umnumzaan. But in a nice way!! :D
All the best, Dave
 
Am I slow or did anyone answer my question, which was-------"How do they accomplish over bend on the 25? "

The replies were why did they install a disk limiter on the Umnum.

Please clear up please.
 
Survey says: the 25 doesn't need a LBS or an OTD. The 25 is very easy to close and does not need a over travel disk. I've never heard any complains about closing the 25.

The only CRK model that has an LBS are some of the later Zanns....some ops, some without much knowledge about how to close a Zaan were bending the lockbar too far to the left

when closing the newer model Zaans.

21's and 25's have plenty of room for a thumb. They do not need a lock bar stabilizer.
 
I only brought this up because both the 25 and the Umnun have the large ceramic ball locking system and wondered why only the Umnum was fitted with the Disk.
 
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