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Lock strength?
- Thread starter Bravado
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I don't think that has anything to do with his question. How many people have had Police back locks fail on them? His question was about strength, not utter failure.
ohmyheckinslc
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I've got an older Police model, linerless G10 scales, and very slim design. I don't own the military, but I assume that the liner(s) in the military (1 in the normal model, and 2 in the CF/BG42 model, IIRC) would tend to even the 'playing field' in the strength department, as I assume that lining the G10 with steel will make the knife, overall, stronger. Cliff could say more about whether the G10 would become the weak spot in the Police model.
I have had a stainless steel Police; lost it and now have a Military. If you put them in a machine to try and break them I am confident the Police would win; that said, I would still rather have the Military.
The Manix and Chinook are supposed to have the strongest locking mechanisms if that is a major concern.
The Manix and Chinook are supposed to have the strongest locking mechanisms if that is a major concern.
My question was directed at your response which indicates the usual prejudice against liner locks. The ONLY liner locks that I have seen fail were on cheap and nasty folders that I should never have bought in the first place. I have never seen a Spydie liner lock fail except once on my C15, when I had not engaged it properly.
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It's not much of a prejudice when you've seen the inferiority like I have. I've seen a Millie with an iffy liner engagement, and I've had them fail on various knives from reputable manufacturers. It's an opinion based on factual experience.
I still think a lock back will be the stronger of the two locks if both are executed correctly based mostly on what I've read in various places, as I obviously don't have a way to legitimately test overall strength on my own.
i have had a millie with a bad lock, was an early 2 clip screw version though, the liner is pretty thin but i dont think they have many probs with them, the police lockback is pretty good, of the 2 the police probably has the better lock imho.
oh, and spydie fixed the millie with the bad lock FWIW, no charge of course.
oh, and spydie fixed the millie with the bad lock FWIW, no charge of course.
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All liner locks wear at a faster rate than other lock types. I've seen several Millies with questionable locks and several compression locks on Para Millies and Yojimbos with lots of play too for that matter. From the stand point of longevity I seriously doubt these integral type locks that are users will have the same life expectancy as a comparable lock back with the same type and amount of use. As a maker if I want a legacy knife to last in my family to last for generations passed down from one member to another in still useable condition it ain't likely to be liner lock. It will be a lock back hands down.
I have Buck lock back folders and Case lockback folders that have seen heavy use. One I even remember throwing and sticking in trees in my teens and these lock backs still function and work well enough to trust as an EDC knife. This even though they are each over 35 years old at this writing. The jury is still out on how these other lock types like the Axis, the ball bearing, the compression, and frame locks among others will hold up over time like the lockback has done. To me thats a testament as to why I prefer the lockback style folder over all others in a folding knife. They stand the test of time. Liner locks don't. In fact the one I thought was the best one of all I've ever owne recently travelled clear across the blade tang one day. Its just two years old.
STR
I have Buck lock back folders and Case lockback folders that have seen heavy use. One I even remember throwing and sticking in trees in my teens and these lock backs still function and work well enough to trust as an EDC knife. This even though they are each over 35 years old at this writing. The jury is still out on how these other lock types like the Axis, the ball bearing, the compression, and frame locks among others will hold up over time like the lockback has done. To me thats a testament as to why I prefer the lockback style folder over all others in a folding knife. They stand the test of time. Liner locks don't. In fact the one I thought was the best one of all I've ever owne recently travelled clear across the blade tang one day. Its just two years old.
STR
TIZWIN
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I don't have any Spyders with liner locks, primarily because I'm left-handed. I will admit to some uneasiness about liner locks in general, though I've never experienced a failure with one. The liner lock I use the most is a Victorinox OHT, which, strangely, is actually set up with a lefty-friendly lock. It stands up to a stout spine whack.
The Police Model, however, is my favorite Spyderco by far. I've got several, including four with factory installed left side pocket clips. I also recently had a Police modified for a four-way clip option, and then "waved." The lock on the Police is not the strongest that Spyderco offers, but it's stronger than the same type lock on knives made by other brands.
P.S. Gotta add that the superb "waving" job was done by the gent who posted moments before me, STR. He must have sneaked in as I was typing!
The Police Model, however, is my favorite Spyderco by far. I've got several, including four with factory installed left side pocket clips. I also recently had a Police modified for a four-way clip option, and then "waved." The lock on the Police is not the strongest that Spyderco offers, but it's stronger than the same type lock on knives made by other brands.
P.S. Gotta add that the superb "waving" job was done by the gent who posted moments before me, STR. He must have sneaked in as I was typing!
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I'll just make a few claims and be on my way.
Liner lock thickness is not a good indicator of liner lock strength. There are advantages to thicker bars, but I've seen very thin bars take a HUGE amount of force without bending. Remember not to compare titanium liners to steel ones. Titanium will need to be thicker to match the strength of the steel. That said, all other things being equal, and provided you don't need a super thin knife, a thicker liner has other advantages that I won't go into here.
A well designed liner lock should never exhibit any play as a result of lock wear. I've had a knife wear all the way across--as in it touched the other handle. This knife still stood up to every task, and didn't develop *any* play ever in any direction. One of the few knives I actually never tightened or loosened in its lifespan.
A better designed liner or framelock will not exhibit wear for years. Take sebenzas for example, just because they're so common. My Blue Bump is only maybe half a year old, but keep in mind it's an AO and gets flicked hard constantly because of it. Not even a hair's width movement despite the constant hard flicking.
Back to strength. Strength was never really even an issue of liner locks as far as I can tell. Reliability turned out to be the complaint. I don't know that strength has even been a big issue in knife locks in general, honestly...it's good for when you get your knife stuck in a log or cardboard box, and against accidentally bumping the back of it. But we know that most of our high end production knives, from testing, can take being beaten to death against a desk. It's nice to know, and something we all want, but do we need something stronger than that?
While I consider the lockback to be the "weakest" (not referring to strength) of common lock designs, based on my person experience, I'd imagine most liner locks would be next.
For reasons OTHER than strength (and I'd probably agree with others that lockbacks, in general, are stronger than liner locks, but this is not an issue based on the reasons above) I'd much rather have the military's liner lock than any lockback.
Liner lock thickness is not a good indicator of liner lock strength. There are advantages to thicker bars, but I've seen very thin bars take a HUGE amount of force without bending. Remember not to compare titanium liners to steel ones. Titanium will need to be thicker to match the strength of the steel. That said, all other things being equal, and provided you don't need a super thin knife, a thicker liner has other advantages that I won't go into here.
A well designed liner lock should never exhibit any play as a result of lock wear. I've had a knife wear all the way across--as in it touched the other handle. This knife still stood up to every task, and didn't develop *any* play ever in any direction. One of the few knives I actually never tightened or loosened in its lifespan.
A better designed liner or framelock will not exhibit wear for years. Take sebenzas for example, just because they're so common. My Blue Bump is only maybe half a year old, but keep in mind it's an AO and gets flicked hard constantly because of it. Not even a hair's width movement despite the constant hard flicking.
Back to strength. Strength was never really even an issue of liner locks as far as I can tell. Reliability turned out to be the complaint. I don't know that strength has even been a big issue in knife locks in general, honestly...it's good for when you get your knife stuck in a log or cardboard box, and against accidentally bumping the back of it. But we know that most of our high end production knives, from testing, can take being beaten to death against a desk. It's nice to know, and something we all want, but do we need something stronger than that?
While I consider the lockback to be the "weakest" (not referring to strength) of common lock designs, based on my person experience, I'd imagine most liner locks would be next.
For reasons OTHER than strength (and I'd probably agree with others that lockbacks, in general, are stronger than liner locks, but this is not an issue based on the reasons above) I'd much rather have the military's liner lock than any lockback.
The police is a strong lock and almost impossible to accidently disengage if it has the Boye Dent. It will last longer for the long haul from what I have seen.
The Military is one of the better liner locks and I carry one, even though I am not a fan of most liner locks. Its advantage is easiness to clean and having never had a Spyderco liner fail on me, I am not too worried. Also, you generally do not back cut with any of the blade designs Spyderco uses in their liner locks which is what makes a liner most likely to fail.
The Manix and the Chinook as said are the strongest of any folder on the market.
It sounds as if you are looking for a bigger folder. The Police is a great knife...my 2 digs with it is 1) the grip is poor when wet and 2) all of the weight is in the handle. Otherwise, it is a great knife with a serious blade design.
The Military is one of the better liner locks and I carry one, even though I am not a fan of most liner locks. Its advantage is easiness to clean and having never had a Spyderco liner fail on me, I am not too worried. Also, you generally do not back cut with any of the blade designs Spyderco uses in their liner locks which is what makes a liner most likely to fail.
The Manix and the Chinook as said are the strongest of any folder on the market.
It sounds as if you are looking for a bigger folder. The Police is a great knife...my 2 digs with it is 1) the grip is poor when wet and 2) all of the weight is in the handle. Otherwise, it is a great knife with a serious blade design.
