I've done some searching and can't seem to find anything on lock strength. Is there anything in the forum that shows how much lbs of force it takes for different locks to fail. I'm really interested in the sebenza integral lock, and benchmade axis lock. thanks for the help
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Lock strength
- Thread starter jarlaxle
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2006
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- 43,053
Locks, Lock Strength and "Cutting With The Spine"
Is the AXIS LOCK Unsuitable for SD use? ( 1 2 3)
There was a good thread on this not long ago, see above. Buried somewhere in the posts IIRC is a comment that what you want is a secure lock, not necessarily a strong one. You want a lock that will not open accidently, which may not be the same as one which withstands an enormous force. As someone pointed out, we do not pry with the spine of the knife.
I don't remember ever seeing numbers associated with lock strength in the forums. And the numbers often posted by manufacturers can be misleading. IIRC the first thread has a nice comment by STR that leads to that conclusion.
The second thread is a nice discussion of Axis Lock security.
Is the AXIS LOCK Unsuitable for SD use? ( 1 2 3)
There was a good thread on this not long ago, see above. Buried somewhere in the posts IIRC is a comment that what you want is a secure lock, not necessarily a strong one. You want a lock that will not open accidently, which may not be the same as one which withstands an enormous force. As someone pointed out, we do not pry with the spine of the knife.
I don't remember ever seeing numbers associated with lock strength in the forums. And the numbers often posted by manufacturers can be misleading. IIRC the first thread has a nice comment by STR that leads to that conclusion.
The second thread is a nice discussion of Axis Lock security.
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- Sep 5, 2005
- Messages
- 2,826
Cold Steel is the only company that publishes tests on their locks and, of course, you
won't find Blade Magazine or any other knife rag providing any useful information along
the lines you seek. That would require some effort and real testing, which they find interferes
with their three-hour lunches.
won't find Blade Magazine or any other knife rag providing any useful information along
the lines you seek. That would require some effort and real testing, which they find interferes
with their three-hour lunches.
Spyderco has a good rating for their lock strength.
They go on a system of pounds per inch of blade, to account for leverage.
The Chinook and Manix have their heaviest locks, which will hold 200lbs per inch of blade. Yes, that means almost 800lbs at the lock.
Sal says his lock breaking machine "jumps" when used on the Chinook.
They go on a system of pounds per inch of blade, to account for leverage.
The Chinook and Manix have their heaviest locks, which will hold 200lbs per inch of blade. Yes, that means almost 800lbs at the lock.
Sal says his lock breaking machine "jumps" when used on the Chinook.
Correction, that's "inch pounds per inch of blade".
Just did a little search on google, found some references.
Description of "MBC"
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-323418.html
Lock on the Lil'Temperance
http://www.spyderco.com/news/pr.php?item=11
Thread on Spyderco Forums regarding Chinook.
http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236
Just did a little search on google, found some references.
Description of "MBC"
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-323418.html
Lock on the Lil'Temperance
http://www.spyderco.com/news/pr.php?item=11
Thread on Spyderco Forums regarding Chinook.
http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236
Sal Glesser
Moderator
- Joined
- Dec 27, 1998
- Messages
- 11,675
Hi Jarlaxle,
as mentioned, reliability is first, strength second.
We (manufacturers) can make most locks as strong a we choose. Break it, see what breaks, increase strength of the failed part, break again, inspect and strengthen again,...
Some locks will have geometriesw that permit more overall strength than others, but all can be made strong enough to withstand the useage of a folder.
Try to keep in mind that knife locks are a collection of very hard bits of steel all carefully processed and fitted to very close tolerances.
sal
as mentioned, reliability is first, strength second.
We (manufacturers) can make most locks as strong a we choose. Break it, see what breaks, increase strength of the failed part, break again, inspect and strengthen again,...
Some locks will have geometriesw that permit more overall strength than others, but all can be made strong enough to withstand the useage of a folder.
Try to keep in mind that knife locks are a collection of very hard bits of steel all carefully processed and fitted to very close tolerances.
sal
Thanks for the input sal. I've never questioned the reliability or strength of a spyderco. I will be getting my first sebenza soon and was wondering about its lock strength compared to others. Thanks again.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2006
- Messages
- 497
Has anybody done a lock strength test on a Kershaw Spec Bump? For that matter,......on any similiar Kershaw using the same locking system?
The knife is a pleasure to hold, open, and cut with. But somehow i don't have the same confidence in that small diameter lock bolt that i do in a hefty liner or frame lock,.....especially comparing it to my Zero Tolerance 0200.
...........i've already lost the tip of my right index finger from a meetup 35 years ago with a motorcycle chain & sprocket when i was 16,..............and don't want to lose anything else!
...........long story,...........short finger!
The knife is a pleasure to hold, open, and cut with. But somehow i don't have the same confidence in that small diameter lock bolt that i do in a hefty liner or frame lock,.....especially comparing it to my Zero Tolerance 0200.
...........i've already lost the tip of my right index finger from a meetup 35 years ago with a motorcycle chain & sprocket when i was 16,..............and don't want to lose anything else!
...........long story,...........short finger!
There was a quote by Ken Onion, I believe, in one of the typical knife magazines when the Offset came out regarding the strength of the Studlock. It didn't name numbers, but it was stated that it had been tested very, very strong.
I believe it, because the force acts on a very short distance. You would have to shear the stud off or break the blade. That is, in principle, far more difficult than buckling a liner, which involves only a bending of the steel and that is relatively easy to do.
To illustrate this point: From the left this is a carabiner made from almost 8 mm stock, a 7 mm nail (european, slightly longer and thicker than a 60 D nail) and a shackle with the pin about 5.5 mm stock. The carabiner and shackle are both from 314 steel and the nail is typical cold rolled steel. All non-hardened and therefore roughly comparable. The carabiner is rated to 250 lbs continuous static load, and the nail I bend with bare hands (which admittedly takes some practice but is well within human strength) but the shackle (thinnest material) is rated to 1000 lbs continuous static load. The Studlock has to fail in a similar way as the shackle (not quite because the shackle bold is screwed into the other side which strengthens the system, but the stud in the Studlock is supported in the middle shortening the leverage. The liner or framelock on the other hand fails similar to the nail. Yes the nail is pretty long but on a knife you have half the length of the knife acting as lever onto the lock, meaning the leverage that you are exerting on a 6" knife is more or less the same as you apply on a 6" nail. The difference is, that most liners and framelocks are not made from 7mm steel, but rather from something that is a whole lot thinner and might even be of softer material.
Having said that, the reliabiliy is of course far more important than the ultimate strength and this is why I am, personally, so fond of the studlock. You can see all the parts at all times. You know immediately when something's wrong.
I believe it, because the force acts on a very short distance. You would have to shear the stud off or break the blade. That is, in principle, far more difficult than buckling a liner, which involves only a bending of the steel and that is relatively easy to do.
To illustrate this point: From the left this is a carabiner made from almost 8 mm stock, a 7 mm nail (european, slightly longer and thicker than a 60 D nail) and a shackle with the pin about 5.5 mm stock. The carabiner and shackle are both from 314 steel and the nail is typical cold rolled steel. All non-hardened and therefore roughly comparable. The carabiner is rated to 250 lbs continuous static load, and the nail I bend with bare hands (which admittedly takes some practice but is well within human strength) but the shackle (thinnest material) is rated to 1000 lbs continuous static load. The Studlock has to fail in a similar way as the shackle (not quite because the shackle bold is screwed into the other side which strengthens the system, but the stud in the Studlock is supported in the middle shortening the leverage. The liner or framelock on the other hand fails similar to the nail. Yes the nail is pretty long but on a knife you have half the length of the knife acting as lever onto the lock, meaning the leverage that you are exerting on a 6" knife is more or less the same as you apply on a 6" nail. The difference is, that most liners and framelocks are not made from 7mm steel, but rather from something that is a whole lot thinner and might even be of softer material.
Having said that, the reliabiliy is of course far more important than the ultimate strength and this is why I am, personally, so fond of the studlock. You can see all the parts at all times. You know immediately when something's wrong.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2006
- Messages
- 497
Thanks for your input on the studlock,......i feel a little better. Just didn't know how much strength these had compared to the likes of my just arrived ZT 0200,......which i feel perfectly safe with.
The reason i was a bit worried was i had an incident on tuesday to discover just how sharp these knives are, and didn't know what to expect with this new lock. I was cutting up some leftover steak for the home pooch to mix with her dry food with my Spec Bump,..........and had just rinsed off the blade,........
.....being a pug, which are notorious for loving to EAT,.....she began barking and jumping at my left side JUST as i was about to close the knife up one handed as i always do. Unfortunately,......my head was turned to the left while i was closing the knife in my right hand,........and don't i catch the tip of my pinky between the blade and frame!
Just underneath the nail a very DEEP cut resulted that it took about 1/2 hour to get the bleeding to stop,.....and i probably shoud have gotten a stitch or two,......but after a good cleanup and some butterfly bandages and other wraps followed by a finger cot it seems to be healing up OK.
Yep,......these are some serious cutters!:grumpy:
The reason i was a bit worried was i had an incident on tuesday to discover just how sharp these knives are, and didn't know what to expect with this new lock. I was cutting up some leftover steak for the home pooch to mix with her dry food with my Spec Bump,..........and had just rinsed off the blade,........
.....being a pug, which are notorious for loving to EAT,.....she began barking and jumping at my left side JUST as i was about to close the knife up one handed as i always do. Unfortunately,......my head was turned to the left while i was closing the knife in my right hand,........and don't i catch the tip of my pinky between the blade and frame!
Just underneath the nail a very DEEP cut resulted that it took about 1/2 hour to get the bleeding to stop,.....and i probably shoud have gotten a stitch or two,......but after a good cleanup and some butterfly bandages and other wraps followed by a finger cot it seems to be healing up OK.
Yep,......these are some serious cutters!:grumpy: