Lock Types

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Pistolpete

Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Messages
148
I see a lot of mentions of different lock types but have not been able to find much information on the pluses and minuses of different lock types. What's everybody's opinions on what is the best lock and can the other lock types still hold up under hard use? Thanks
 
The Benchmade Axis lock is the best, IMHO. Although if the moon is full, and the planets are aligned just right, a liner lock can be just as effective under the right circumstances. Those circumstances include proper blade tang to liner lock engagement tolerances. If done correctly, they can be very secure. I have several that lock up properly (read strongly). The controversial spine-whack test has no effect on a few of my liner locks and I can trust them not to fold back on me.
 
The liner lock is probably the most common lock in quality folders today. Many people don´t trust it, but if it´s well-made and passes the spinewhack test, it´s absolutely fine for me.

The frame lock (a.k.a. integral lock) is similar to the liner lock, but here you won´t find any scales covering the "liner". This makes the frame lock stronger, because squeezing the handle will make the lock-up stronger.

The lock back is often found in traditional folders, it´s pretty secure but hard to close one-handed.

The Axis lock is very strong, but it uses a lot of mechanic pieces to reach that goal.

The compression lock is also very secure.
 
SOG's arc lock seems to be pretty similar to the axis lock. Does anybody that owns one of each care to tell me their preference and why?
 
I prefer the axis lock as well.

I don't mind liner locks just that I find, the ones I've used)to be hard to move. It might just have been the knives I've used though. I also find that my big thumbs get in the way due to my lack of decent hand-eye co-ordination :D.

Is the axis lock patent by Benchmade because I've only seen it on benchmade knives. Is there anyother companies that make knives with an axis lock?
 
The spine whack test is silly in my opinion. What, are ya gonna beat your work or your foe to death with the spine of the knife or cut them with it??? :D

Ya know, the other term for "whacking" is "masturba****"

Then again, that would explain why so many people keep doing that test...

:D

~B.
 
I suppose locks depend on how well they are built. However, that's probably not the answer you want.

I do recall one conscientious forumite did a test -- albeit unscientific -- on many different knives two years ago. I remember he (I'm sorry I can't recall who it was), put knives in a vise and tortured them.

Apparently the Axis lock held up the best. There was no catastrophic failure. Instead, the stop pin crumpled and the blade folded over a bit rather than an abrupt closure. Pretty impressive.

I find the new Spyderco Compression lock interesting. It looks like a reversed integral or frame lock but the "leaf" is at the spine side of the tang. Therefore, I suppose in theory, the point of lockup is like an Axis; although the two are very different locks.

In spite of all these new locks, I find it interesting that it doesn't look like they have affected the popularity of more traditional locks.
 
Arc and Axis

I carry both a BM 710, 921 and a SOG pentagon elite in my EDC rotation.

They do have some subtle differences when you examin them closely.

The first thing you notice is that the Axis is pulled strait down and the Arc is pulled down and towards the palm in a somewhat circular motion.

The Arc pushes the blade out about 1/4 of an inch when closed and the lock is depressed. The Axis does not move the blade at all.

The Axis is a short metal rod supported between the liners by the springs, it is kept from moving side to side because the inner part is thicker than the parts that stick out on either side. The Arc is supported in a similar way except the short metal rod has pivot bar coming off of it that is attatched to the liners.


The Arc can be adjusted with an ordinary screwdriver so that it always remains perpendiular to the handle. I have not had an issue with the Axis being off kilter prob because of the different methods to keep them in place.

Both are strong, smooth and very ergonomic.


Formulate you own opinions from experience. I change my mind to often to state what I think with any conviction.

It is a very close race but because of the extra Pivot bar and the assist that the Arc gives to opening by pushing the blade a bit puts SOG on top.



.....................

I havent owned a liner lock since an old CRKT folded on me and tried to eat my hand. I found that knife the other day...if anyone wants to see I can try n post some pics. It is def not a model they have anymore.

I did get a CUDA Maxx last week and....WOW! I had been very disenchanted with the Maxx before. Every time I handled one it jammed was uneven and had poor fit and finish. I found one at Plaza Cutlery that was absolutly awsome....fit and finish perfect, unfailing and mighty lock up, big as all heck too. I didnt ntice when they gave me one from the stock in the back. When I checked it out at home it was pretty crappie, so I rushed back there and picked up the floor model I had examined. They were happy to exchage it for me, excellent service. I ended up with a giant Sebenza with guards and D2 steel.
 
Okay, here is what I decided. For a while I would not have a knife unless it had a framelock and I still think that the Sebenza is one of if not the strongest folders available. What I then arrived at, in my very own brain, was that if the liner lock was engineered correctly and built with quality materials then it would suffice for my needs in a folder. The liner locks I currently own are just that; quality liner locks from makers who understand the geometry of the liner lock. They also understand that thicker is better, especially when you know what you are doing!

The liner lock works for me and I have not suffered any problems with it in all the years I have used them. As always IMO and YMMV, if it does you may be SOL!
 
Gollnick: The topic of lock types seems to come up frequently. I think the problem is that the search function is not presently available to basic members. Once it gets up and running, someone starting a thread like this could be encouraged to read the many, many threads already on-topic.;)
 
I dont think it is a bad thing to discuss these same broad and important topics in a different thread every so often. There are always new innovations coming out and it would be arrogant of ius to think we have covered EVERYTHING there is to say about lock types. And for new people who might not venture into the older depths to find these old threads, seach or no, it is nice to see these discussions pop up anew.


My question for you Gollnick is......increadibly off topic
I was wondering about your signature "It dont mean a thing if it aint got that swing" Is a repeated line in a jazz tune I have a liking for. But I know nothing about the title or who composed it. I think it is called "Whats that do". I play a bit of trumpet and was wondering if you can tell me about where I might find some sheet music for it, or at least the composer so I may search on my own. This is based on the assumption your Musical Director title inferrs you have such knowlege. If not, sorry to interrupt the discussion.:D
 
Originally posted by Brian Jones
The spine whack test is silly in my opinion. What, are ya gonna beat your work or your foe to death with the spine of the knife or cut them with it??? :D

Ya know, the other term for "whacking" is "masturba****"

Then again, that would explain why so many people keep doing that test...

:D

~B.
Click to expand...

I'm not touching your second point not even with a ten foot pole. :o

However, I agree with your first point and said the same thing a couple of years ago -- minus the collquial defintions!

I believe the rap on the spine phobia is from people regurgitating what they've read from the Cold Steel site.

I think these tests are important from the perspective that they are an indicator of overall quality, and tolerances from manufacturing, and just the pure goal of making folders stronger and better. But, taking a sledgehammer to the knife or parking a Volkswagon Beetle on top it is extreme, unrealistic, and beyond the scope of what a small folder would endure for everyday use by the typical user. No doubt about that.

If people are that concerned, they should buy a fixed blade.

No doubt someone is bound to disagree and argue something silly like, "What if I'm in a fight with my folder and the other guy has a Louisville slugger, or machete and he hits the spine of my knife?..." I say, if the other guy has a bat or machete and you only have a 3.5 inch folder, you better run like hell!
 
While it is most commonly attributed to Duke Elington who used it as a tag line of sorts, the line "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing," comes from Sing, Sing, Sing by Benny Goodman.

That reminds me... the Blade Forums Marching Marimba Band Should work up a Goodman tribute one of these days.
 
In an ideal world, a well made lock should be all you need for a secure knife, no matter the configuration.
Liner locks are fairly easy to make, but one must get the locking ramp and the liner just right. Liner thicknes doesn't seems to matter as much. I've seen the Spyderco Military and no matter how hard I try (short of using a hammer and vice) it won't budge. Failures usually occurs when the liner slips (I've done it to a folder that it slipped) or at the best case, the liner itself fails under the pressure. I don't know whether you would have detached fingers though.
Lockbacks are also fairly easy to manufacture, and usually found in traditional folders and Spydercos (and other companies) Spyderco lockbacks have moved the release up to about the midway of the handle, length-wise, and with their "intergral choil", usually it's fairly easy to close. I wouldn't know exactly how a lockback would fail, but if the pins holding the lockbars are not done well, they might fail.
Axis and compression lock should be fairly hard to make them fail when they are made properly. If they fail, they would likely blow out the stop pins.
 
or abuse is it going to see. I carried a first production run Gerber EZ-Out for five years, a lockback that is by no means robust. I've heard people cry foul, that it folded on them. I don't see how. I used mine daily. It went through paper, cloth, plastic, tape, limes and a restaurant-sized can of olives. Never folded on me, not once. My CRKT M-16-03Z has served me faithfully for a few years now. It hasn't failed me, either. And I've probably abused it more than I ever did the Gerber. It just feels more solid, I guess that drove me to push it harder. And these aren't even top end knives. I wouldn't worry about the type of lock so much as the maker. And if you need something REALLY strong but can't carry a fixed blade the Spyderco Chinook and SOG Tomcat are both supposed to monsters. I haven't held 'em but I wouldn't feel poorly equiped with either. YMMV.

Frank
 
In all my experience, I have NEVER had any type of folder fail and the blade fold back onto my fingers. Mind you, unless you are doing imitations of some the stunts they pulled off in the movie 'Cliffhanger', I don't see how any folder locking system would fail under NORMAL circumstances. The only times I have ever had a blade on a folder fold onto and cut my hand is when I wasn't being careful paying attention or I was in a hurry. I would prefer speed in opening a folder but closing one? Why? If I was so afraid of a folder accidentally closing on me, I would stick with a dependability of a fixed blade and get over my neurosis. Anything that requires me to be that HARD on a knife I wouldn't even bother with a folder. Let somebody else beta test their life and limb if thy want to push the limits on their folders. It just doesn't make sense to do that just to prove a point. Just my 2 cents. :footinmou
 
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