Lockback Folder failures

Rusty

Rusty

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I'm probably behind the times, but I've carried and used Buck and SOG lockback folders over thirty years now, and never experienced a locking failure. Not saying it doesn't happen.

I never owned a liner lock until picking up a pair of Kershaw 1416 Talons. They seem to be good knives. But the liner lock seems to do two things to me.

One, it reduces the pressure on the blade compared to the very heavy lockback spring. Thus, you can whip the thing out and play switchblade more easily.

Two, it puts the release for it where you can far more easily inadvertently bump it loose. Kind of like the safety on the Glock's trigger.

I'm NOT trying to start a food fight here, just wondering why the lockback has been so uttlerly abandoned in such a short time.

In the spine whack threads I've read, nobody's ever mentioned the lockback failure rate. I guess they are are so passe nobody bothers. I would expect them ( lockbacks ) to have a certain failure rate. But what is that rate compared to the failure rate of linerlocks?

If the information is out there, would someone please give me links to it.
 
Interesting, I do remember in one of the other threads about liner locks that someone used a lockback to 'jimmy' a window open and the lock failed cutting him badly.

I personally think the liner lock was brought in as it is easier to produce and it allows one handed unlocking. A lockback requires more effort and practice.
 
If, we load enough stress, we can get anything to fail. The lockback format has worked pretty well for me. About the only time I have seen one fail, the cause was excessive buildup of grime within the locking slot. If you buy a reasonably made knife and keep it clean it will serve you well, as the owners of hundreds of thousands of heavily used Buck 110s can attest.

N2S
 
I've not seen may, if any, lockbacks fail intermittently.

Most often, lockbacks fail due to lint buildup that prevents the lock from completely engaging. Removal of the lint makes is perfect, once again.

Occasionally, if the user is gripping really hard on the handle, the fatty part of their hand could very slightly disengage the lock, making it a bit more susceptible to failure.

Very rarely, lockbacks fail completely, but that would be permanent parts failure (not intermittent).

The lock design is a sound one (if properly executed)…one used for many, many years. How strong is it? Strong enough. If you become worried about the lock, get a fixed blade! :)
 
There's an older BM Ascent that I have that fails the spine whack test. You know that notch in the tang where the rocker bar falls to lock the blade open? Most good lockbacks seem to have another, smaller notch within that main notch on the tang. The Ascent I have lacks that additional little notch though, so maybe that's why its lockup isn't as solid. Or it could just be poor manufacture.

It seems like the lockback, unlike the linerlock, can still be pretty sturdy even if it's made cheaply though. I bought one of those ultra cheap Eagle brand lockbacks a couple of years ago out of curiosity and was surprised to find that its lock held up reasonably well. On the other hand, ultra cheap linerlocks are just plain scary.

I agree that most lockbacks fail because there's something in the mechanism which prevents a clean lockup. A lot of lockbacks show a little bit of up-and-down blade play, which can be very annoying when you're cutting something. To eliminate the play, you have to have very tight tolerances. The problem with that though is that the lock is unforgiving when a foreign object gets stuck in it. Just a little tiny bit of pocket lint in the notch can prevent the surfaces from mating to a necessary degree. The result is that the knife might not get fully locked open, but it may appear that it is.

All in all, I think lockbacks are great. The reason why they're so rare now is probably just because people want the latest fancy lock mechanism, whatever that is. And whenever a company comes out with a new lock, of course they hype it like crazy... it's always got to be better than the locks that came before it.
 
It's a mystery to me as well. The most reliable and affordable knives I own are the spyderco endura and delica. While a liner lock may be cheaper to make, it's much harder to make well, but it seems like even a cheap knock-off company can't screw up a lockback.
 
I have several custom folders that I carry all the time. All are lockbacks.

Lockbacks are not gone, just a little harder to find nowadays. The liner-lock (Walker) is really popular, but it is not the best lock around, only the most common among current high-end production folders.

Several knife makers have designed their own locking mechanisms, like the Pease side-lock, or the Sawby self-lock, or move the back-lock towards the front of the knife like Tomes and Bradshaw. Many knife makers use lock-back design for most of their knives, and some flatly refuse to make liner-locks for many different and interesting reasons ;)

Paracelsus
 
I’ve broken lock backs. I’ve broken liner locks. I’ve broken slip joints. I’ve worn an Axis lock down to blade play in six months of fooling around and company replaced it. I’ve put a frame lock through two years of heavy use and the maker decided to replace the handle slabs before it effected the knife. It never developed blade play or failed in any way, he just didn’t like the way it “felt” and took care of it for me.
 
Lockback are very vulnerable to crud getting into them defeating the lock. This has happened to me. I had a new Dragonfly in my shirt pocket and cut a few boards on the tablesaw. A while later I noticed the lock on the knife was not working. A little saw dust got in and that was all it took.

That said, linerlocks are like a crapshoot. I think its harder to get them right most. Most fail by slipping rather than buckling the liner. Thats the most common way that I have seen them fail the spine wack test. Yes you can flip them out easier but how valuable is that. I mean you can open a lock back fast enough.
 
Linerlocks and marketing: two things that try to fix nonexistent problems.

That said, linerlocks are easier to open than lockbacks. That's why they're popular. You can flick them open if you're not a baboon (or even if you are). Now, that's only because the blade is swinging around freely once you get the ball detent out. Some sane people might see this as a shortcoming.

The whole tip-up / tip-down controversy arose primarily because of safety concerns--from linerlocks.
 
Thanks to you all for your input. It's been appreciated.
 
The only lock backs I've ever seen fail were either from dirt build up or were poor quality knives.

Paul
 
I don't see lockbacks as disappearing at all. They certainly have not disappeared at Spyderco. In fact, Spyderco fairly recently came out with what has to be one of the strongest lockbacks ever, in the Chinook. I believe I've read that the Delica and Endura still are the highest selling models for Spyderco. Certainly other lockbacks are very popular, including the Native, the Calyspo Jr., and I'm getting stuck here. (Memory failure)

I don't see any sign that Cold Steel is going out of business. They still sell a lot of lockbacks. From what I read, the Buck 110 seems alive and well.

To me one of the more interesting developments in the tactical folder lock "game" has been the development of the Striders and TOPS folders, the supposedly bulletproof knives, that all seem to have liner locks. I keep having the feeling that the relatively few linerlock problems we read about here, may represent an extremely small percentage of the actual numbers of those knives sold. I still haven't heard anyone seriously knock the linerlocks of MitroTech very hard, or those of Emerson or Benchmade or Kershaw, tho of course BM is naturally relying more and more on the Axis lock. I just don't recall many, if any, anecdotes of the linerlocks of those knives failing, even tho 2 of those brands have had QC problems discussed with some regularity.
 
I doubt lockbacks are all that rare. Buck, Cold Steel, and Spyderco sell a lot of them even now. We tend to look at the knife market from the point of view of our own highly educated opinions, but to some extent, we are supporting a small, specialty industry.
 
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