Lockback Stronger Than Liner Lock, etc.

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South

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Jul 31, 2007
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I saw a comment in an older thread that said a lockback is a stronger locking mechanism than a liner lock. Is this true? I thought it was the other way around?

If it is true, why are most defensive or military/LE type knives liner locks? (Or frame or Axis...)

Is a frame lock stronger than lockback? Where does Axis fit in? I saw a comment from one user that said he would never consider an Axis lock for a defensive knife. Don't remember exactly where that was on this forum, but it was an older thread, so didn't ask him why. Are there problems with Axis locks?

Thanks!
 
Some people feel that the omega springs could break in the axis lock (they keep the lock against the tang) without them the lock would be useless. as far as liner/frame lock vs lockback, lockbacks are more old school-they take 2 hands to close. liner locks are more wear resistant and easly operable with one hand. many belive they are weak though.
 
I think saying a liner lock is stronger than a back lock or vice versa really wouldn't be true. You would have to compare the locks on individual knives. you might be able to compare 2 companies lock styles but even then, not all triad (cold steel) locks are the same. A smaller CS knife has a different lock than larger one and my $16 kershaw has a different liner lock than a ZT.
 
This probably isn't the answer you're looking for, but it's almost impossible to make a blanket statement to the effect that, "lock type A is superior to lock type B". Certainly on some level, there are lock types that enjoy fundamental mechanical advantages over others. But so much of a lock system's true strength and security is attributable to the quality of the materials, the dimensions and tolerances of the individual components and the skill of the person or process that puts them all together, that making any meaningful comparisons demands identifying specific models to be compared.
 
I like the liner because it lets me see what's happening. I don't like the hidden locks, since if a lockback is wearing out, you wouldn't be able to notice. Strength... well my theory is as long as it's stronger than my grip strength it's good.
 
Basicaly, stronger than what would ever be needed. the facts can be found online,
i think ALL members on this form have awnsered this question and tryed to explain it but theres so many variables.
Im to lazy to type all this.:D
 
South said:
If it is true, why are most defensive or military/LE type knives liner locks? (Or frame or Axis...)
Click to expand...

Because they work well. You can make a lock that withstands 400 pounds at the tip of the blade, but you'll have to sacrifice other things like ease of manipulation opening and closing, weight, and the durability of simplicity. If you don't weigh 400 pounds and use the front of the blade to cut things, then which features would you rather have? A well-made liner lock will withstand anything you can reasonably put it through, plus it will be easier to open and close, and you can make the knife with flow through construction so you can clean it more easily.
 
Linerlocks are fairly simple to make and maintain and are more comfortable to work with, from a designer's point of view. I guess those are some reasons why they are that popular.
As far as strength is a concern, there are conuntless knives out there that prove a properly made linerlock is reasonably strong.
 
Honestly, neither.. A fixed blade is the strongest... :p

To answer your question to the best of my ability, I can only echo what others said.... You can make either a liner/frame lock or a lockback/midlock withstand as much pressure as you want, but that means sacrificing other features, like say a blade that can withstand the same as the lock itself? If you want a folder that can withstand forces upwards of 500 lbs, then you can make a slip joint (jack knife, meaning no true lock) stand up to those forces, but how will you ever close it? Or open it if it comes closed? It comes with over 500 lbs of resistance, so you could probably break the blade before the knife opens.

Or, on the other hand, you could make something like a balisong (butterfly knife), that takes nothing to open because the entire opening mechanism is a hinge with 3 pieces, left, right, and blade, and that locks by stopping two of the 3 pieces from swinging around randomly like it would if you weren't holding it, there for subjecting the lock strength to your own strength.

Please correct me if I'm too terribly wrong on any of this, I do not own a balisong, I only know about them what I read about them.
 
South said:
Where does Axis fit in? I saw a comment from one user that said he would never consider an Axis lock for a defensive knife. Don't remember exactly where that was on this forum, but it was an older thread, so didn't ask him why. Are there problems with Axis locks?
Click to expand...

JBK2596 said:
Some people feel that the omega springs could break in the axis lock (they keep the lock against the tang) without them the lock would be useless.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't use that as a reason to shy away from the axis lock in a defensive folder. Each axis lock has two omega springs and the chances of both of them breaking at the same instant are pretty astronomical. Concerns about accidentally deactivating the lock mechanism during high stress handling due to the location of the lock on the scales seem more reasonable to me.
 
another lock thread ;)) I think lockback is just more reliable than some cheapo liner lock. they are not really stronger. Now all I care about is just the reliability and the logevity of the lock under normal use. No more super strong locking mechanism
 
I like Sal Glesser answer on this "issue". He posted that they can engineer any lock to whatever breaking strength they want, so saying one type of lock is inherently stronger than another simply isn't true. Some are less expensive than others, and the fewer parts they have, the less there is to go wrong. In that sense, liner locks and frame locks are more reliable than backlocks which have more parts. In the end, locks are all small bits of metal tasked with a big job, and any of them can fail.
 
Lockback is stronger than a liner lock or a frame lock. Spyderco has a machine designed and used to test locks, and is how they came up with their lock rating system. According to Sal's posts, they have not gotten any liner or frame lock to reach Very Heavy Duty (former Martial Bladecraft) rating. They have had several lockbacks in that rating, along with the ball bearing lock and the compression lock. http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?24676-sal-strongest-lock&p=299272#post299272

With Spyderco's designs to test, knowledge to test properly, and experience to build a proper liner or frame lock, I don't think the results are all that questionable. Andrew Demko also posted that he has not gotten a frame lock to achieve the weight hang results of many production Cold Steel tri-ad lock models. Allen Elishewitz also did some tests showing his button lock design on the Hogue EX-01 outperformed liner and frame locks.

Liner and frame locks are strong enough for just about anything you need to do with a folding knife. AUS8 is also sufficient in stain, impact, and wear resistance. Just depends on how enthusiastic/fanatical you are about any of the numbers associated with the make-up of your knives.
 
South said:
If it is true, why are most defensive or military/LE type knives liner locks? (Or frame or Axis...)
Click to expand...

That's a trap. It's important to remember that most "defensive or military/LE type knives" are considered "defensive or military/LE type knives" because they are marketed that way.

And then, also remember that just because certain knives are popular among "defensive or military/LE types"...that doesn't make them good. The majority of "defensive or military/LE types" carrying knives are not uber knife geeks like ourselves.

All that said...don't worry about locks. People cut things with slipjoints all the time. Its just simple technique. And if you are doing some kind of cutting that makes you even think about lock failure...break out a fixed blade.
 
The truth is a well made lock is stronger than a poorly made lock. It is wrong to stereotype all liner locks in one neat tidy category.
 
Yes, but well made lockbacks are stronger than well made liner locks. For example, a 2mm bladed lockback, with no liners in the frn handle, held more weight than two premium "tactical" models with G10 scales over titanium liner locks.
 
hardheart said:
Yes, but well made lockbacks are stronger than well made liner locks. For example, a 2.5mm bladed lockback, with no liners in the frn handle, held more weight than two premium "tactical" models with G10 scales over titanium liner locks.
Click to expand...

If you are saying pound for pound or mm for mm, yes, you are correct

But it would be incorrect to assume that all liner locks are inferior to all lockback
 
hardheart said:
Yes, but well made lockbacks are stronger than well made liner locks.
Click to expand...

This has been my EXPERIENCE personally, from the many knives I have owned and observed. At the same time, I agree with the earlier statement that just about any type of well made, well implemented lock is adequate for what you need to do with a folder. Most of this stuff is about marketing hype (we have the "strongest" lock, etc.), but the vast majority of users are never going to push a knife to such extremes. How do you REALLY use your knife, daily?
 
Imo the lockback is the strongest locking mechanism beside framelock. Normally the lockback has a stronger backspring than the liner ever could be. A liner lock doesnt show this safety to me like any backlock.

Kind regards
 
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