lockbar stop

dnb04

dnb04

Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
59
probably this question has been asked before, but I'm curious why CRK's don't have the lockbar overextension stop that other frame locks have.

is it not a concern?
 
They don't need it. The reason (in my mind) is that the milled out area of titanium which permits the flexion of the 'lockbar' is of a superior design. It's a pretty different cutout from those others that you're referencing if you examine them all in comparison. You wouldn't be able to overflex or stress the ti on the CRK's. You would on those others without their use of the lockbar stabilizer. (JMO) Someone else could probably elaborate more specifically.
 
two words - marketing gimmick*

Unneeded for 99.9 percent of knife users.
 
RobME said:
They don't need it. The reason (in my mind) is that the milled out area of titanium which permits the flexion of the 'lockbar' is of a superior design. It's a pretty different cutout from those others that you're referencing if you examine them all in comparison. You wouldn't be able to overflex or stress the ti on the CRK's. You would on those others without their use of the lockbar stabilizer. (JMO) Someone else could probably elaborate more specifically.
Click to expand...

I agree with your statement. I also have noticed that my sebenzas have a much stiffer frame lock while benchmades, striders, etc seem to have a more flexible frame lock. I believe thats why the strider uses the Hinderer stop. I dont have an xm-18 to compare to yet, but since it has a stop, I would think its in the same boat. You can definately tell by the feel or just looking at the cut outs on the sebenza and other folders. The sebenza has been in the making for 20 years, so I am sure Chris has it perfected. I have never heard of a chris reeve frame breaking ever !
 
isn't the clip on the sebenza directly over the cutout, so wouldn't that work somewhat as a lockbar stop? it seems like it would at least add to the amount of force required to bend it
 
personally, i too have never understood the lockbar stop. in concept, sure it makes sense. but in practice, how common/realistic is it to overextend the lockbar?

on all the framelocks i've handled, it seems like it would be a herculean feat to overextend the lockbar with thumb pressure alone.
 
Well I for one like the idea of the lock stop. I don't necessarily feel that the Sebenza needs it, but I do think it's an improvement that is worthwhile in knives that have it.

Here it what the inventor, Rick Hinderer, has to say about it. Maybe it will change the way you feel after reading this, it did for me...

"I am firefighter as alot of you know...while working a accident scene I was using one of my Firetac's to cut the upholstry material around a seat post prior to using the jaws to cut the post...being that it was a good wreck, and adrenalin was running high,and the fact that we wear heavy gloove when working a MVA,I pushed the lockbar way to hard thereby springing it,and of course the blade could no longer lock,not a good thing to happen, at the wrong time! I knew then I needed to do something about it...The other issue I wanted to address was the lockbar springing towards the back of the knife when gripping it...this is what is not so obvious in a improvement...the reason is that sometimes the movement in the lockbar is not really noticable when using the knife under normal conditions...but when you use the knife really hard, and really grip it you WILL move the lockbar..this is because to make a framelock or linerlock for that matter you have to cut the long slot in the frame or liner to make the lockbar,it does not matter what size slot you cut you will still have material missing there...simple physics, suggests that you have a lever and it will move toward the back of the knife...guaranteed...now, what does this mean...1, whenever you have movement in a mechanism it is a chance for that mechanism to fail..2,extra movement in the lock to blade joint will wear the lockface quicker...3,when the blade is locked up on a framelock with the lockbar stabilizer there will be absolutly no movement in the lock...."
 
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tf8s said:
isn't the clip on the sebenza directly over the cutout, so wouldn't that work somewhat as a lockbar stop? it seems like it would at least add to the amount of force required to bend it
Click to expand...

I do believe the pocket clip is part of the design. The clip does have alot of tension designed into it, and since is presses against the lockbar, you would have more pressure holding it from being over extended.

Biginboca said:
Well I for one like the idea of the lock stop. I don't necessarily feel that the Sebenza needs it, but I do think it's an improvement that is worthwhile in knives that have it.

Here it what the inventor, Rick Hinderer, has to say about it. Maybe it will change the way you fell after reading this, it did for me...

"I am firefighter as alot of you know...while working a accident scene I was using one of my Firetac's to cut the upholstry material around a seat post prior to using the jaws to cut the post...being that it was a good wreck, and adrenalin was running high,and the fact that we wear heavy gloove when working a MVA,I pushed the lockbar way to hard thereby springing it,and of course the blade could no longer lock,not a good thing to happen, at the wrong time! I knew then I needed to do something about it...The other issue I wanted to address was the lockbar springing towards the back of the knife when gripping it...this is what is not so obvious in a improvement...the reason is that sometimes the movement in the lockbar is not really noticable when using the knife under normal conditions...but when you use the knife really hard, and really grip it you WILL move the lockbar..this is because to make a framelock or linerlock for that matter you have to cut the long slot in the frame or liner to make the lockbar,it does not matter what size slot you cut you will still have material missing there...simple physics, suggests that you have a lever and it will move toward the back of the knife...guaranteed...now, what does this mean...1, whenever you have movement in a mechanism it is a chance for that mechanism to fail..2,extra movement in the lock to blade joint will wear the lockface quicker...3,when the blade is locked up on a framelock with the lockbar stabilizer there will be absolutly no movement in the lock...."
Click to expand...

I agree with what Rick says. My stepson is a volunteer fireman and I have seen his gear. The gloves are rather large and I could see what happened to Rick, actually happen. I like the stop, It is an improvement or fail safe for an already excellent design. Having carried a strider, benchmade, sebenza, mnandi, I must say the frame lock on the crk models I have handled IS much stiffer than the others. Wether it has to do with the way crk cuts out the frame, or weather it makes a difference if it is cut out on the inside our outside ??. I know my benchmade is cut out on the inside like the sebenza and the spring is not nearly as stiff as crk's.

I know on my large sebenza, when I am really gripping it tightly, the lockbar engages even furthur into the blade, sticking somewhat when its released. This has been discussed and is considered normal.
 
Rick was being wise when he put that thing together. The lock stop is not a gimmick; it's just not always necessary either, as on the Sebenza.
As RobME said, the cutout in the lockbar on the Reeve knives seems to address the same problem in a different way.
 
Leave it to Chris Reeve to design something so great that has definately stood the test of time !!!
 
I think it is kinda cool to have but I don't feel the seb needs it with the clip. If you have that much adrenaline pumping and such huge gloves on, I think id opt for a fixed blade. Probably work better, and take much more beating than any folder:)
 
Thalestin said:
I think it is kinda cool to have but I don't feel the seb needs it with the clip...
Click to expand...

It's not the clip...

(pssst) I have a Strider SnG (don't tell anyone). It's a fine knife and I really like it, a lot! Believe me when I tell you... it NEEDS the Hinderer lockbar stabilizer. The clip on the CRK might look like it serves a similar purpose, and I'm sure it does help, but I'm absolutely positively certain that the clip's effect as a stabilizer to the lockbar is minimal at best... and that's a fact. And another fact... the strength of the lockbar on the CRK knives has everything to do with the shape and position of the cutout. That's it in a nutshell.

Take apart a Sebenza and try with your bare hands to bend back the lockbar. You'd have to be ridiculously strong to bend it out of shape so it won't spring back. Do the same to a Strider and you'll bend back the lockbar pretty easily, and it won't spring back to it's original position.

This isn't posted to take anything away from the Strider. I may prefer them for myself over the CRK, but it's all in the design and execution. CRK have excellent, minimalist (almost flawless), designs which have no need of the well-engineered but done after-the-fact (because the weakness was discovered later), lockbar stabilizers of the other brands. CRK simply doesn't need it.
 
I've seen the lockbar stop on only Rick Hinderer's knives, the ZT03XX series, and late model Strider SnGs and SMFs. What other models are using the lockbar stop right now? I like it, but agree that it isn't a necessity when it comes to the Sebenza due to the design and placement of the pocket clip.
 
Tony8179 said:
I've seen the lockbar stop on only Rick Hinderer's knives, the ZT03XX series, and late model Strider SnGs and SMFs. What other models are using the lockbar stop right now? I like it, but agree that it isn't a necessity when it comes to the Sebenza due to the design and placement of the pocket clip.
Click to expand...
I don't know... I think I'm bangin' my head against the wall here. so I'll stop (after I say this) :) ... Things are sometimes, but not always what they seem.

If one were to remove the pocket clip from the Sebenza the lockbar would be just as strong and function indistinguishably from the clip being mounted. It's not the clip... it's the shape, position, and thickness of the cutout.

The clip is there. It helps a hair, but it's not needed at all to support the lockbar. Go ahead... ask CRK... I'm done.
 
RobME said:
I don't know... I think I'm bangin' my head against the wall here. so I'll stop (after I say this) :) ... Things are sometimes, but not always what they seem.

If one were to remove the pocket clip from the Sebenza the lockbar would be just as strong and function indistinguishably from the clip being mounted. It's not the clip... it's the shape, position, and thickness of the cutout.

The clip is there. It helps a hair, but it's not needed at all to support the lockbar. Go ahead... ask CRK... I'm done.
Click to expand...

I still think its all the pocket clip ;)
 
I remove the clips from my knives, the lock works great, my two cents on that subject.

I haven't owned a CRK folder that I felt needed any extra support for the lockbar. I can't say the same for other makers.
 
I think Chris Reeve is the Jedi Master when it comes to designing knives. Has any of them flopped ???.....UM......NO !!! He is the "Yoda" if you will of production knives............Back to the lockbar, I agree that its 100% the way the lockbar is cut out. Its definately fluted and you can see the double cut out. Almost like a flattened down McDonalds "M". BUT, I do think the clip helps. It might not be much, but I do think it helps. The lockbar is easily twice as stiff as a strider and probably tripple what my benchmade is. I dont think its because its cut inside ( my benchmade is cut inside ), I think its more in the design of the way they have it fluted out.
 
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