Lone Wolf Harsey Tactical Ranger - poor QC

[dougli]

I was going to do a little review of this knife, but I had to send it back. In the closed position, the blade did not sit squarely between the liners. The tip nearly touched one of the liners (the locking liner), it was so out of alignment. This problem was not due to a loose blade pivot mechanism; in that case it would have been touching the other liner. I do not plan on getting another one any time soon. In my opinion, this is a glaring oversight in factory quality control, especially for a knife with this price. That is why I did not return it to Lone Wolf to be remedied, even though they offered to make it right. If a defect as obvious as this is allowed to pass through, who knows what the replacement knife would have wrong with it?

For those people who want to take me to task for my view, which is that a defect of this nature reflects negatively on the company which would try to sell such an obviously-defective knife, may I direct you to my posts on a Becker BK9, in which I try to clarify my view on this topic:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=310530

 

[TIR]

That is very unfortunate and I understand your point. I own a Harsey T2 and it came flawless, action was really smooth blade was aligned when closed and the lock up is solid. The only thing that could of used some improvement on was the edge, a little too dull for me but still very usable.

I have dealt with there customer service before with my Tighe Pan as the action was gritty. They were pleasant over the phone and had the knife back to me the same week. I couldn't of asked more except that it be perfect in the first place, but anytime you have the "human" variable in a process there will always be errors.

I accept the chance that when I purchase a production knife it may not be 100% to my liking and I also expect that manufacturer to correct the problem to my liking if they can't correct it I expect a replacement or a refund. I feel these are normal standards on any production item I buy. I mean I spend tens of thousands of dollars on my automobile with the same expectations and risks involved, so on a few hundred knife give alot more leadway.

Just my .02. Have a great night!

 

[Knife Outlet]

My only comment is that very, very few knife manufacturers do 100% quality control. So if you want 100% quality control and are willing to pay for it, companies like Chris Reeve are there to take care of you. The rest of the world has some defects from time to time. Even though the defective knife you bought was a 100% defect rate for you, I'd guess that the overall defect rate on this knife is probably well below 1%. Personally, I haven't seen a defective Lone Wolf but obviously some do leave the factory. Some do leave virtually every factory in the world.

Maybe it's sensible to look at it this way. Since almost every manufacturer in the World has a less then 100% defect rate and since almost every one ships some percentage of defective knives, then you should ban almost every manufacturer from your future purchases. That would make it pretty hard to buy knives at all. It's fine to be upset that you received a defective one but it seems a little unreasonable to me to take that single event out on the manufacturer in that way. I think the best course of action would have been to let Lone Wolf address the problem. The result would have been a perfect, 100% quality controlled knife for you and one that I think would have provided a lot of satisfaction. It is a very good knife. Take care.

 

[Roadrunner]

I have to agree with TIR and KO. I've recieved a few defective production blades over the years, and while I agree it's certainly frustrating it's also a fact of life. As long as the manufacturer is willing to fix it for you without charge then they're fulfilling their end of the bargain IMO.

 

[Blop]

I just had the chance to handle three pieces at a show and they all weren´t worth the price for me. I have to say, that they may be much more expensive here overseas.

So i´m not surprised to read this.

 

[dougli]

Maybe it's sensible to look at it this way. Since almost every manufacturer in the World has a less then 100% defect rate and since almost every one ships some percentage of defective knives, then you should ban almost every manufacturer from your future purchases. That would make it pretty hard to buy knives at all. It's fine to be upset that you received a defective one but it seems a little unreasonable to me to take that single event out on the manufacturer in that way. I think the best course of action would have been to let Lone Wolf address the problem. The result would have been a perfect, 100% quality controlled knife for you and one that I think would have provided a lot of satisfaction. It is a very good knife. Take care.

You are of course correct. Also, I am quite aware of how misleading statistics can be, and of the danger of snap judgements. But I think anyone who is considering buying one of these knives should be aware of my experience, so that they can decide if they want to face the possibility of having to return the knife. This is a valid decision for any purchase, of course. But I feel that it is also helpful to be manufacturer-specific on defects. That is, I've had one Lone Wolf, and it had a glaring fault which could only have escaped a blind quality inspector. It is not illogical to conclude that Lone Wolf knives had a major lapse in quality control. Even if I somehow got the only defective knife that slipped through since Day 1, the fact that it was such an obvious defect, and it was still shipped, reflects negatively in a way that does not apply had the problem been any one of the dozens of other possible defects. For contrast, I've had or handled many Spyderco's, and don't recall seeing anything like it. Does this mean one should buy Spyderco's and steer away from Lone Wolf? Absolutely not. But hopefully my experience will give a potential Lone Wolf buyer food for thought, especially given the price of their knives. There is no perfection, in knives or in any product. I have seen poorly made knives come from the hands of major custom knife makers. But there are commonly-acceptible parameters for quality control, and I believe I am discussing a valid exception. Of course, you would have to see the knife to know if we actually agree, and I've already returned it.

 

[Kronos]

i sympothise that you had a bad knife expieriance, i dont think its fair that you tell people they shouldnt buy a knife. with all due respect, you seem like someone who doesnt really understand what Beckers are manufactured for. if you want a perfect knife, go buy a randall, wait numerous years, and when you get it, it will be perfect. Beckers are no nonsense tough blades, that will do what they need to do. they are manufactured well, and i can tell you that my BK11 is perfect in every way. no really, there is nothing wrong with this blade, nothing. i also wouldnt say that a slightly uncentored blade is a "glaring oversite" i think that it is a slight imperfection that is easily missed. i also wonder exactly how deep these gouges were. could you have, for example, stood a penny up in one of them, or were they more than, half, or a quarter, the thickness of the blade? i do not think that it is fair to denounce a company like becker just because the knife wasnt "perfect"

 

[dougli]

Kronos, I realize that the difficulty here is that you have not seen the imperfections on the Becker or the Lone Wolf. Regarding the Becker, one gouge in the blade was about 3/8" long and about 1/8" deep. The one on the other side was shallower and smaller. To consider this acceptable for a new Becker is to create a new class of factory knives which are sold as new, but which have imperfections that other companies only sell as clearly-labeled seconds. If Beckers are supposed to be known as having second-rate finishing quality, that's news to me. It doesn't sound like yours is that way. As for the Lone Wolf, I never said the blade was slightly uncentered. I said that the blade tip almost touched the liner. This knife is very large and wide, with a lot of room between liners, so this is not a slight imperfection. And it's pretty hard to miss: look at the knife from the front, back, top or bottom when closed, and there it is.

I'm not telling people to not buy a Becker or Lone Wolf knife. I'm just saying that I did make these purchases, and this is what I got. Both knives still cut fine. My posts are just to let people know my experience, that of a person who expects a new knife to look like new, and doesn't expect to have to deal with the factory to get a replacment for obvious manufacturing defects. That doesn't matter to everyone, so I'm certainly not trying to tell people what to do.

 

[mumbleypeg]

How did you come to buy this knife? Were you unable to inspect it prior to purchase?

 

[dougli]

How did you come to buy this knife? Were you unable to inspect it prior to purchase?

Correct. I buy knives for resale, usually over the internet or by phone. I know that this knife was new-in-the-box.

 

[Knife Outlet]

No, Doug. I wouldn't need to see it. I have no reason to think that you can't recognize a defective knife. I don't doubt that it was defective. I don't doubt that it didn't get an inspection at the factory. As I said, almost nobody does 100% quality control. I'm not arguing that.

I'm just suggesting that you will get some level of defects, even on Spydercos or nearly any other brand. Not many overall, but obviously a 100% defect rate for the person that bought one like yours. I can assure you we've had many defective Spydercos returned over the years. Those customers felt the same way about their knives as you did about your T2. It doesn't make Spyderco or Lone Wolf bad companies. It just seems that way to the person receiving the defective knife. I can tell you that both companies take customer care seriously and do it well.

Let me give you an example from last week. A customer bought a Paul knife and was happy with it except he felt cheated that the knife didn't include a polishing cloth like the literature said should have been included. I asked the customer to contact Lone Wolf since I didn't have any of those cloths. I heard back from Lone Wolf's President telling me they had sent the cloth to the customer and were in the process of checking current production for any of the old sets of literature that mentioned the cloth. As it turns out, the cloth is no longer a feature of the knife. Lone Wolf made good on it, however. That's pretty good customer care in my opinion. Take care.

 

[dougli]

OK, this will be my last post on the topic of significantly defective new-in-box factory knives. It's obvious that the general consensus in this forum is not in conformity with my views. I started this thread, and the last one, because I thought there were other people out there who would appreciate this type of info. Instead, the responses have been overwhemingly negative. If anyone cares to further consider the changing relationship of Quality and Quantity in contemporary life, may I suggest the book Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance, by Robert M. Pirsig?

 

[Thomas Linton]

Dougli, it just that it's not really useful to know that someone makes a mistake, even if you are 100% unhappy about it. In a world where mistakes happen the useful information is "How often do they make a mistake, considering the level of risk created by mistake?" and "What do they do when it's brought to their attention?" A sample of one is not statistically informative. It's just an anecdote -- unless the person making the mistake denies that there was a mistake when it's undeniable.

IMO. A mistake may even be an opportunity to demonstrate class. I had a vendor send me the wrong axe not once but twice. The way he chose to handle things thereafter made me a customer for life -- to my benefit several times over.

 

[dougli]

Dougli, it just that it's not really useful to know that someone makes a mistake, even if you are 100% unhappy about it. In a world where mistakes happen the useful information is "How often do they make a mistake, considering the level of risk created by mistake?" and "What do they do when it's brought to their attention?" A sample of one is not statistically informative. It's just an anecdote -- unless the person making the mistake denies that there was a mistake when it's undeniable.

IMO. A mistake may even be an opportunity to demonstrate class. I had a vendor send me the wrong axe not once but twice. The way he chose to handle things thereafter made me a customer for life -- to my benefit several times over.

Your questions are valid, but to them let me add another, the one that applies in my examples: "How bad of a mistake did they make, and not catch it, or what's worse, deliberately let it pass through?". Be sure I'm not assuming that any of these manufacturers deliberately let through the defects that I encountered other than as part of a company policy of acceptible defects, i.e. not as an attempt at deceit.

As for saying that a sample of one is not being statistically informative, that's true. But practically speaking, our decisions are not based on statistics, but observations and experience. Here is an extreme example. Suppose I need surgery, and have a choice of two physicians. Each has performed one operation such as I need. One doctor's patient is crippled due to faulty surgical procedures, the other healed properly. All other factors being equal, the normal choice would be to choose the doctor whose patient did not suffer problems. But first of all that information needs to be made public. This is one of the points I'm trying to make with this mundane cutlery thread.

 

[kevtan]

Wow!! The perfectionist in person!!! Wait.... I thought only god can create something perfect!!!!!?????

 

[HoB]

I very much understand your sentiment, asking for a flawless knife, but I think your missing one very important point: I doubt, that in any mass production knife factory every single knife is inspected, and I doubed you would be willing to pay the price for it, if it were. The inspector wasn't blind, he never saw the knife. Inspections are only made to ensure that the (mostly computer controlled) machines are working properly, not to inspect every knife individually. At least this is the way it works in most factories. If you want something that is perfect every time you buy it, you have to buy a custom. There you pay the money for perfection. If everybody would post because they had a knife with poor QC, this forum would probably be flooded. As long as W&R takes care of it, I don't really see a reason way this is a problem.

 

[brownshoe]

From the Spyderco video, it appears they inspect every knife before it goes into the box. It appears they assure the lock works and the knife "looks" good. I have also asked AGRussell's people to inspect the knife before shipment and they do it also. I always ask this for a Case knife since fit and finish can be variable and a good Case is almost as fine as can be. For one model, New Graham pharmacy pulled out their two benchmade knives in stock without asking and told me the "defects" in them and let me specify the one I wanted.

 

[dougli]

Please people, understand that I am not expecting perfection! I am expecting knife manufacturers to not sell knives to the public that have gross manufacturing defects! What is so unreasonable about that? We are giving them our hard-earned money, and sometimes not a little of it. In exchange we expect a certain level of production diligence on their part. Is it therefore so unreasonable to expect a certain basic level of quality control? I am not expecting perfection! And yes, as brownshoe says, as far as I know, some manufacturers do inspect every knife; it is not cost prohibitive to do so for the average mass-produced knife.

Not perfect, and not grossly flawed, but the result of...
just...
basic...
quality...
control...
in the first place.