Long hidden tang hole?

Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Messages
94
I'm on my way to making my first knife, and I'm really excited... but I've run into a problem!

Is there some standard way of making a long hole for a hidden tang? I have a tang about 4" long that I want to put into a chunk of wood. It is made out of a 3/32" steel.

My plan was to make a Japanese-style handle by heating up the tang and shoving it into a hole in the wood to keep it in there. But I have no idea how to make the hole for the tang to shove into.

The only thing I can think of is a really long 1/16" or 5/64" drill bit, but I worry that the longer it gets, the more likely it isn't going to spin true. Is this worry warranted? Is there some other way that people usually do this?

Thanks!
 
the only way i would know to do it is to carfully split the block of wood and chisel or router (preferable) out the mortise for the tang. then clap your blocks back together, glue, and pin. I'v seen some done this way that are truly amazing, and look seamless.

Alex
 
If your just using the hoel as a guide then it doens't need to be dead on. I have some long wood drill bits (12") that I use for hidden tangs on large pieces without much, if any, trouble. If you have a drill press with a vise you can take a piece of round stock (or a bolt), put a point on one end then clamp that into your DP vice. Then line up the tip of the drill bit with the tip of the point in your vice. Mark the centers of the wood on either end, put the bottom guide point on one, the drill bit tip on the other, drill halfway through and flip it over. Hope this made sense and helps.
J.
 
Brash, apart from the way that Alex and J suggest,the best way I have found is to do it on a milling machine with a long cutter that does NOT run off. It has to be done from both sides because no cutter is long enough.
I would be more than happy to help you because I have access to one, so if you want to send it to Montreal......
However, judging from what I have seen on this forum there might be someone closer to you that would be equally willing to help you.
The offer stands though. :D

Mike
 
Thanks for the replies, guys.

I'm not actually sure if I explained it right. I could, of course, do it with slabs of wood, or I could drill from both ends; but I'd like to find a way to do it all with one piece without leaving a hole in the butt end.

I know this has to be possible, because I've seen knives with long tangs that are done this way (and I own a knife like this). I'm sure it isn't terribly difficult, because knives have been made this way for a long time...

Here is an example of what I am trying to do:
http://watanabeblade.com/english/pro/magurokiriknife.jpg

Those knives with long tangs end up like this:
http://watanabeblade.com/english/pro/23.JPG

These sites (among many other sites) describe how the handles are made:
http://hocho.o-1.jp/tec7.html
http://www.japanese-knife.com/forging/

However, I can't find any place that explains how the holes are made to drive the handle into!

I will look around for a long drill bit, though, and see if that works... I was just wondering if there was a "normal" way of doing this that I was overlooking. :)


EDIT:

Aha!
I finally found a site that (sort of) explains the process.

http://www.ragweedforge.com/mount.html

Apparently you can actually burn a slot into the wood. I had assumed I needed to have a hole first...

An alternative is to burn the slot. This was often done in early times since long drills (or drills of any kind) were not always available to the maker. Today, it's easiest if you first drill a hole though the handle, then burn the hole into a slot. This is how the Helle factory did the Viking handles. You can use a piece of steel shaped like the tang, heated to a nice red. Press it in the hole until you are almost where you want the blade to sit, then clean out the char to the final fit. It may take a few passes. Unless you are using a blade that will be heat treated later, do not use the blade you are going to mount. The heat will ruin the temper of the blade. If you are doing a number of knives with the same blade, I suppose you could sacrifice one of the blades as a burning iron, but it seems a waste. It shouldn't take long to file or grind a piece of mild steel to the shape of the tang.

There is also a good tip for getting holes to match up from both ends:

If you are using a drill press, you can make a simple tool to greatly ease the work. Clamp a block of scrap wood to the table of the press. Drill a shallow hole in the wood and fit a stub of nail or drill rod in the hole, leaving a little sticking out. Lower the table, but keep the stub in line with the drill. Now when you are drilling the handle, drill a shallow (1/4" or so) reference hole in the other end of the handle first. Place this hole over the nail and you will be sure of your hole direction. This makes it much easier to drill converging holes to form a slot. It also is a great help when you are trying to drill through a handle from two ends and get the holes to line up properly. If you are making a handle with a blind hole you can still use this to keep the hole in line. Just leave the wood a bit long until you drill the main hole, then remove the surplus with the reference hole.

Hope that helps someone. :)
 
Good luck Brash,
I believe the milling machine is here to stay. :D
If you want to drill though, J seems to have a very logical idea.
Good luck.

Mike
 
Brash,
Call MSC at 1 800 645 7270. They have aircraft extension drills 6" and 12" from 1/16" and up. These are what I use. For wide tangs take a piece of flat stock the same thickness as your tang and make a chisel to even up the slot.
Del
www.ealyknives.com
 
I have a set of long drill bits and I agree, they whip around when trying to drill with them. I learned to drill with a regular short bit first. That gives a support to the bottom of the bit and helps take out most of the 'whip'. One word of caution. The long bits are more prone to 'wonder' off when drilling. I don't know of any way to stop that tendency. I start with a larger piece of wood and shape it around the completed hole instead of trying to drill a completed handle.
Just what I do,
Lynn
 
im new to knifemaking, but have made many handles for tools. try drilliing a 2" deep hole from each end for a four inch handle. no need for special drills , and it shouldn't drift much at that depth. if you want a blind hole drill a smaller pilot first then enlarge it. also does the tang have to be the full four inches?would three be enough? i can't imagine that last inch of tang would give that much strength.
im presently finishing a 4 inch bowie style blade thats my first knife and a letter opener as a gift for someone.
 
brash said:
Thanks for the replies, guys.

If you are using a drill press, you can make a simple tool to greatly ease the work. Clamp a block of scrap wood to the table of the press. Drill a shallow hole in the wood and fit a stub of nail or drill rod in the hole, leaving a little sticking out. Lower the table, but keep the stub in line with the drill. Now when you are drilling the handle, drill a shallow (1/4" or so) reference hole in the other end of the handle first. Place this hole over the nail and you will be sure of your hole direction. This makes it much easier to drill converging holes to form a slot. It also is a great help when you are trying to drill through a handle from two ends and get the holes to line up properly. If you are making a handle with a blind hole you can still use this to keep the hole in line. Just leave the wood a bit long until you drill the main hole, then remove the surplus with the reference hole
:)
I'm thinking that is what J said? :confused:

you can drill the wood with a drill and make a tool to cut your groove in it the size you want, I'll use a file to make the tool out of.. someone posted a tool like this here a while ago..
 
Dan Gray said:
I'm thinking that is what J said? :confused:

you can drill the wood with a drill and make a tool to cut your groove in it the size you want, I'll use a file to make the tool out of.. someone posted a tool like this here a while ago..

J said something similar. It was just another method to do the same thing... :)

The problem is, that's exactly what I don't want to do. ;) I want to make a traditional Japanese knife handle, which is only cut (burned, actually, as I found out) from one end.

Del, thanks for the tip! I ordered an aircraft drill bit and will try it out with a 2" pilot hole that I drill with a little guy first. Hopefully this works!
 
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