long tern storage

[Shiver]

I intend to put some of my fixed blades into storage and have coated the blades in silicone grease + removed the knives from their scabbards.

Questions:

1)Will silicone grease have any detrimental effect on knife handles made of prylon, zytel or G10?
2)I wrapped my greased blades in scrap paper, is there any chance that the paper will leach any dyes or harmful substances onto my blades?

 

[DaveH]

I do know that common paper is not balanced in PH and theoretically could cause corrosion.

I doubt that there would be any problem as long as it is kept dry or with low humudity.

 

[Kennieyk]

Not sure why you would wanna use newspaper ! Thers lots of other paper you could use . Maybe a airtight baggie would serve better !
Then i would coat the blades only in a light protective oil . Then
store them in a airtight ammo box ! They can be bought at any sporting good store and I would back it up with that silica that takes moisture outta the air . All the items I mentioned are very cheap! I'm sure some of the older forum members have a better Idea !
But that was mine

 

[UltraReef]

I would stay away from the paper. Humidity can be a problem. Better let me hold them for you so you don't have to worry about it!

 

[JOCKO]

I think silica might also thake the moisture from natural handle materials. ie ivory, horn etc.
Good Collecting !
JOCKO

 

[Gollnick]

I think you're in for troubles.

The problem you're trying to avoid is oxidation. The common terms for it are "rust," if it occurs on iron or steel and "tarnish," if it occurs on silver. Cosmetically, they look different. Rust on iron is red/brown and flakey. Tarnish on silver is black and sticks tightly to the surface. But, chemically, they are the same process. We want to stop that process.

This process occurs when oxygen contacts the metal. The air around is is some 27% oxygen. So, we have to separate the metal from the air.

It's a common myth that water causes rust. UNDERSTAND THIS: WATER DOES NOT CAUSE RUST. Oxygen causes rust. That's why it's called "oxidation." The "Ox" is oxidation doesn't refer to large farm animals but to oxygen. Water often has oxygen dissolved in it and water may bring that oxygen in to more intimate contact with the metal. But water or moisture does not, itself, cause rust. Some time ago, I went to see an exhibit of arifacts recovered from the Titanic. While they've been under water for some fifty years, the iron and steel are largely unrusted. Why? Because as you go deeper and deeper in the ocean, the oxygen concentration in the water decreases. At the depths this stuff was at, there is very little oxygen in the water.

The idea of applying oil or grease is to coat the surface of the knife and thus separate the metal from air.

Will silicone grease have any detrimental effect on knife handles made of prylon, zytel or G10?

Over years, it certainly could.

is there any chance that the paper will leach any dyes or harmful substances onto my blades?

Especially with the addition of the grease, there's a huge chance.

Remember that I said that rust is the same process as silver tarnishing? I recently went to another exhibit. This one is at the Portland Art Museum. Portland Art Museum has, with some recent donations, become a major collection of decorative silver. And, to celebrate these new additions, they have it all paraded out now. If you own anything that is real silver, then when you see gallery after gallery, display case ofter display case filled with hundreds and hundres of silver cups, bowls, pitchers, serving pieces, trays, clocks, picture frames, sculptures, objects of all sorts, you have only one quetion in your mind, "Who polishes all of this?" But polishing is a destructive process. You remove some of the surface metal. When the objects you're charged with caring for are a silver service given to President Washington at his inaugration and which is considered the first piece of "White House service" which set the tone for White House furnishings for a hundred years, an ink well used by Thomas Jefferson, a Revereware bowl actually made by Paul Rever, etc., etc., etc., then you want to absolutely minimize polishing. What do museums use? Renaissance Wax. A fine, museum-grade wax such as Renaissance Wax forms an air-tight coating on the surface of the metal and completely stops oxidation.

 

[parfive]

What about trying those food sealers and vacuum packing the knives? That may work and would not cost a lot to do.

 

[TheBadGuy]

I would do a search and pick up some Bianchi Blue Bags

 

[ColoradoDave]

A few thoughts, many of which are based on my experience as a shooter and gun collector, as well as a knife and tool enthusiast ... and realize, I live in a fairly dry climate, so if you're in some humid, coastal area, storage can be more problematic than what I've personally experienced. (BTW some of this echoes what Gollnick said in his post, while I was busy writing this.)

Over the years I've had a fair number of firearms, magazines and other metal parts that had been packed with cosmoline and similar, low-tech petroleum greases for literally decades, and can attest to the preserving power of grease; at least when it comes to steel. This seems pretty intuitive, that a thick, moisture-resistant substance that clings to metal in a fairly thick layer is going to protect it from rust and corrosion (assuming there's nothing corrosive in the grease itself) and the atmosphere in general.

If the knives you're storing are going to be exposed to any kind of unusual heat, you might want to test the grease you're using, just to make sure it isn't going to get runny and slough off ... but even at that, I would suspect it should still leave a decent protective layer.

Greases and oils containing silicone are somewhat controversial among shooting enthusiasts (though like any religion, everything related to firearms is controversial) and some claim they can become gummy/sticky over time. I can't say one way or the other, but even if this did happen, IMO it shouldn't affect the protection, and you should still be able to clean it off; it might just take a little more work.

There are many good rust-preventative oils and greases available today, and I don't think you need to worry about finding the best. Among the oils and thinner stuff, BreakFree CLP is excellent, and I've heard good things about Militec-1 and Boeshield T-9. I've known guys who used conventional motor oil with excellent results. With the right greases, you're likely talking an even greater level of protection for steel components. There are also waxes and special rust preventative products available.

I agree with others that wrapping your knives in newspaper probably isn't a good idea. Some papers contain acids, and newspaper has got to be the cheapest of the cheap. There are special papers made for the purpose of storing metals, but I would also think that a roll of wax paper from the grocery store might be a pretty good bet.

A word of caution about plastic bags: I have stored oiled/greased metal parts in Zip-Loc brand and similar plastic bags for several years without a problem. However, there's always the possibility that plasticizer from the bag could react with the oil or grease you've used (particularly non-synthetics) or even effect some synthetic parts on your knives. I have personally had grease stored in a plastic container become polymerized -- wound up with an amber "hockey puck" of axle grease -- so I do periodically check those items I have in plastic bags.

You often find it recommended that rust- and corrosion-prone items should not be stored in an air-tight container of any kind-- plastic bag or gun/knife case, sealed cabinet, etc. -- because you could be trapping moisture in. While I've personally never seen this to be a problem here in Colorado, I have seen firearms harmed while stored in breathable fabric cases: one which a friend kept on the upper shelf of a bedroom closet only feet away from an adjoining bathroom with shower, the other a rifle in a fabric case left in a leaky car trunk. In both instances, a cheap, waterproof vinyl/plastic gun case would probably have prevented the problem. So, I think you need to decide this one on a case-by-case basis, and dependent upon your "environment."

The remaining concerns I would have -- and they are significant, along lines Gollnick has mentioned, and which I hope others will comment on -- have to do with the fact that what's good for preventing rust/corrosion on steel may not be the best thing for the wood, synthetics, and some non-ferrous metals found on many knives. Long-term, grease and oil might damage wooden handles/scales, including some stabilized wood products; hard to say for sure, and this is likely to depend on the product(s) involved. Similarly, I know that certain high-tech lubricants can have an adverse effect on nickel, and I would be concerned about German silver and all similar alloys as well. As for synthetics like micarta and G10, I think there's the possibility that some of the modern penetrating oils, and possibly some of the additives in the newer synthetic greases, could pose some problems; I just don't know. Also I think there's the risk that some of these products could penetrate under the edges of epoxy bonds.

With firearms, these latter concerns are rarely a problem, because you can usually remove any parts you're concerned about, and store them separately. With knives, some special care may be in order. Personally, if I were preparing knives for long-term storage as it seems you are, I would try to minimize putting any grease and oil on wood and synthetic handles/scales, nickel bolsters, and similar parts.

Finally, I follow a routine of regularly inspecting my collectibles that are in storage. What fun is it to own them, if you don't bring 'em out once in awhile to enjoy 'em?

 

[Raptor]

I'd have to go with Mr. Gollnick's suggestion that he's made here.


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[rev_jch]

I would coat the blades in tuf-glide put them in an open plastic bag and store them in a room with a de-humidifier. If you do not have one then store them in a dry box with a small silica gel-pac (not the kind that come in shoe boxes, but the type you can buy from eknifeworks.com, or a sporting good store). Make sure the sheaths are stored seperately from the knives.